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New evidence of a possible cyclic universe.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
    From what I understand, we have the wrong amount of energy and matter for there to have been an infinite number of cycles in a cyclical universe, only about a hundred or so. So you still have to explain what caused the cycles to start cycling in the first place.
    Well, if it was from previous infinite cycles there would be no first cycle. It could possibly be that the previous infinite cycles are coming to their untimely end.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      My beliefs are not an issue here. This is a science topic in Natural Science 301.
      But this statement is nevertheless part of your beliefs. How can it not be?
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        But this statement is nevertheless part of your beliefs. How can it not be?
        My belief in the Baha'i Faith includes the belief in the Harmony of Science and Religion. Nonetheless I use Natural Science 301 for science topics and I use Apologetics and Philosophy for topics to deal with Religion.

        This thread ONLY deals with scientific research concerning the possible cycles of universes as a part of the explanation of the origin of our universe.
        Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-25-2018, 05:13 PM.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          Well, if it was from previous infinite cycles there would be no first cycle. It could possibly be that the previous infinite cycles are coming to their untimely end.
          No, what I mean is that there can't have been a prior infinite number of cycles. We can only be in cycle number 100 or so, if it's cycling at all (which doesn't seem feasible). So you're still right back to explaining what put it in motion initially.
          Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
            No, what I mean is that there can't have been a prior infinite number of cycles. We can only be in cycle number 100 or so, if it's cycling at all (which doesn't seem feasible). So you're still right back to explaining what put it in motion initially.
            Still remains an assertion with out adequate references to be taken seriously. It assumes that a cyclic universe is isolated from the greater cosmos, which cannot be made based the present knowledge.

            Still waiting . . .
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
              No, what I mean is that there can't have been a prior infinite number of cycles. We can only be in cycle number 100 or so, if it's cycling at all (which doesn't seem feasible). So you're still right back to explaining what put it in motion initially.
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              Still remains an assertion with out adequate references to be taken seriously. It assumes that a cyclic universe is isolated from the greater cosmos, which cannot be made based the present knowledge.

              <snip>
              Specifically, what would rule out an infinite past where there never any first cycle?
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                Specifically, what would rule out an infinite past where there never any first cycle?
                Insufficient information. You would to find all other possible hypothesis for prior possible universes, multi-verses false beyond a reasonable doubt. Maybe discover the very beginning of the universe and find 'absolute nothing there (sarcasm noted).This is very very unlikely, since all the present evidence demonstrates these are possible.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  My beliefs are not an issue here. This is a science topic in Natural Science 301.
                  Actually they are. Do you believe this theory or not?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    Well, if it was from previous infinite cycles there would be no first cycle. It could possibly be that the previous infinite cycles are coming to their untimely end.
                    Infinity doesn't end. If it did it would not be infinite.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      My belief in the Baha'i Faith includes the belief in the Harmony of Science and Religion. Nonetheless I use Natural Science 301 for science topics and I use Apologetics and Philosophy for topics to deal with Religion.

                      This thread ONLY deals with scientific research concerning the possible cycles of universes as a part of the explanation of the origin of our universe.
                      But why post theories that you don't believe? You don't post theories on the flat earth, do you? Not unless you were getting ready to mock or destroy them.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        Specifically, what would rule out an infinite past where there never any first cycle?
                        Infinite regresses are impossible. My understanding of the issue goes like this:

                        Suppose you had an infinite row of dominoes arranged such that one falling forward would knock over the next in line. Pick any arbitrary domino in the line. How long would it take for that domino to be knocked over by the preceding one? To put it another way, how long would it take for the state to be reached where every preceding domino had been knocked over? If the line of dominoes is infinite then it would be literally impossible to ever reach that state. So the answer to the question is, it would take an infinite amount of time for any domino in the line to be knocked over, which is another way of saying that it would be impossible for any one domino to be knocked over.

                        The simple fact that this universe exists at all is proof that the universe is not infinitely cyclical.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Infinite regresses are impossible. My understanding of the issue goes like this:

                          Suppose you had an infinite row of dominoes arranged such that one falling forward would knock over the next in line. Pick any arbitrary domino in the line. How long would it take for that domino to be knocked over by the preceding one? To put it another way, how long would it take for the state to be reached where every preceding domino had been knocked over? If the line of dominoes is infinite then it would be literally impossible to ever reach that state. So the answer to the question is, it would take an infinite amount of time for any domino in the line to be knocked over, which is another way of saying that it would be impossible for any one domino to be knocked over.

                          The simple fact that this universe exists at all is proof that the universe is not infinitely cyclical.
                          Yep.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            Insufficient information. You would to find all other possible hypothesis for prior possible universes, multi-verses false beyond a reasonable doubt. Maybe discover the very beginning of the universe and find 'absolute nothing there (sarcasm noted).This is very very unlikely, since all the present evidence demonstrates these are possible.
                            Absolute nothing is not anything. Does not exist, nor ever did. What ever existed is never nothing.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Infinite regresses are impossible. <snip>
                              Only for a finite closed system. An infinite past without a beginning has no first cause. Else it would not be infinite.
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                Only for a finite closed system. An infinite past without a beginning has no first cause. Else it would not be infinite.
                                If it has no first cause then there can never be succeeding effects. That's the point of the domino example.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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