Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: The Qur'an is not the Word of God?

  1. #1
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    427
    Amen (Given)
    184
    Amen (Received)
    110

    The Qur'an is not the Word of God?

    An argument is presented here that can be summarized as follows:

    Premise 1: Either the Bible is the Word of God or it is not.
    Premise 2: If the Bible is the Word of God, the Qur’an is not.
    Premise 3: If the Bible is not the Word of God, the Qur’an is not.
    Conclusion: Therefore, the Qur’an is not the Word of God.

    Premises 1 is indisputable, and as the author says, "Premise 2 is easy to establish, since the Qur’an and the Bible fundamentally contradict one another." So the argument hinges on premise 3. The author then goes on to show that "The Qur’an, over and over again, affirms the Christian Scriptures, claiming consistency with them, and asserting that the Torah and the Gospel (the 'Injil'), and also the Psalms, are previous revelations from Allah." So if the Bible is not the Word of God, then neither can the Qur'an be.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  2. #2
    Thread Killer QuantaFille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thulcandra
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    1,210
    Amen (Given)
    421
    Amen (Received)
    606
    This logic makes sense only to those who are not Muslim, or didn't grow up in a predominantly Muslim community. Their culture is completely different from ours. To them, it's true because it's true and "logic" doesn't come into it.
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

  3. #3
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    9,297
    Amen (Given)
    17375
    Amen (Received)
    3438
    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaFille View Post
    This logic makes sense only to those who are not Muslim, or didn't grow up in a predominantly Muslim community. Their culture is completely different from ours. To them, it's true because it's true and "logic" doesn't come into it.
    If Muslim majority countries didn't care about logic and consistency at all then the doctrine of abrogation wouldn't exist.

    The argument is missing something, and that is that the Qur'an affirms the preservation of the Bible. Without that they can just say it was corrupted by men. They often do that anyway, but when you show them how the Qur'an says otherwise they get stuck between a rock and a hard place. Of course this only really affects those who can't handle cognitive dissonance.

  4. #4
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    427
    Amen (Given)
    184
    Amen (Received)
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    The argument is missing something, and that is that the Qur'an affirms the preservation of the Bible. Without that they can just say it was corrupted by men.
    Good point, and I should have mentioned that the author does address this with quotes from the Qur'an.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  5. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  6. #5
    Thread Killer QuantaFille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thulcandra
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    1,210
    Amen (Given)
    421
    Amen (Received)
    606
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    If Muslim majority countries didn't care about logic and consistency at all then the doctrine of abrogation wouldn't exist.
    Ask them how it can be co-eternal with Allah, if only Allah is eternal and the Quran is not a part of him. They'll shrug their shoulders and say "it just is". They have explanations for some things, but if there isn't an explanation they accept it as true anyway. I guess I should have said that logic has less weight to them than it does to us.
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

  7. #6
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    9,297
    Amen (Given)
    17375
    Amen (Received)
    3438
    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaFille View Post
    Ask them how it can be co-eternal with Allah, if only Allah is eternal and the Quran is not a part of him. They'll shrug their shoulders and say "it just is". They have explanations for some things, but if there isn't an explanation they accept it as true anyway. I guess I should have said that logic has less weight to them than it does to us.
    The answer I've usually seen is that the Qur'an proceeds from Allah from eternity past. Maybe we've just encountered very different Muslims.

  8. #7
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    42,175
    Amen (Given)
    3966
    Amen (Received)
    19344
    Since the Quran mentions things and people that occurred at specific time, and even refers to them in the past tense, how can it have existed eternally?

  9. #8
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    9,297
    Amen (Given)
    17375
    Amen (Received)
    3438
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Since the Quran mentions things and people that occurred at specific time, and even refers to them in the past tense, how can it have existed eternally?
    Exhaustive predetermination is common among Muslims. Basically they say we have no free will.

  10. #9
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    42,175
    Amen (Given)
    3966
    Amen (Received)
    19344
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    Exhaustive predetermination is common among Muslims. Basically they say we have no free will.
    Not exactly what I was getting at.

    If it was written from eternity, everything should be written as future tense. But some things are written as past tense and some as future tense, which aligns pretty well with when the Quran magically appeared on the scene.

  11. #10
    Thread Killer QuantaFille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thulcandra
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    1,210
    Amen (Given)
    421
    Amen (Received)
    606
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    The answer I've usually seen is that the Qur'an proceeds from Allah from eternity past. Maybe we've just encountered very different Muslims.
    That would make the Quran part of Allah, and Allah cannot be divided into parts. It's something they believe without needing to have an explanation for it.
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •