DeSantis Uses Racist Dog Whistle...

[oxmixmudd]

It's actually rather questionable whether these things are in fact due to the "legacy of slavery":

Source

Oh - and I suppose the disparity between the general success in white and black communities is because the black people are black?

That would be ... let's see ... racism! How about that!

Your little article actually tries to imply black people were better off before the 1960's ... that they were better off riding in the back of the bus, better off with separate but equal, better off fearing the local KKK might decide to throw a lynching? Really?

However, while it is true that the fact is the increase in the number single parent families can well be linked to changing morals. The negative effects of that are disproportionate to the poor. Single parenting is a strong indicator of poverty, how much more so if your subgroup starts out poorer to start with ...

The legacy of Slavery has produced 150+ years of poverty and oppression. In the US there are large segregated areas that are typically black. And in most of those areas, the Crime is much worse, the drugs are much worse, and the poverty is much worse in those areas. Now you would propose that 100 years of full on discrimination and in many cases fatal hostility to black people had nothing to do with creating those concentrations of crime and poverty around black population centers?

And I suppose you would want to claim that 'It's their fault' they grow up in those areas or that they don't take advantage of the 'programs' that are supposed to help them break that cycle? Really?

So like when the local gang tells you you either join the gang or you are dead you expect a 10 year old with a single mom to just be able to tell them to take a hike and go home and do his homework?

It's a long progression of a long history, and it is not easy to break such a cycle. But the elephant in the room is that poverty stricken areas exist in most or our cities and towns and that have significant black populations. And what is that if not the legacy of Slavery, which as I'm using the term consists not just of the fact these people were dumped into the world with no education, no wealth, and no real skills that could be used to make a legacy for themselves, but also that the white population has continuously over time oppressed, murdered and otherwise abused them as they tried to make a place for themselves in this nation.

The articles Franklin Douglass quote cuts both ways. Since when have black people ever been actually left alone to make their own way free of any ropes holding them back? When has that ever happened in this country?

Things are in fact better. I work with black people all the time that have broken those bonds. Who have been able to rise up out of those horrible environments and make a place for themselves, or who were lucky enough to have parents that did it and they actually grew up more like I did than like someone in the Ghetto. But they still have to give their kids 'the talk' about the police and how to act if pulled over to avoid trouble. What is that if not the continued legacy of racism and slavery in this country?

This is just the very real history of race in this country. Something all of you slamming me right and left seem absolutely and completely ignorant of.

With the civil right movement in the sixties, there has been change. But we still have huge sections of all our cities that are mostly black and where the children grow up around drugs and gangs, where they have one or two parents working all the time just to feed them (if they are lucky). And the legacy continues generation after generation.

And with what we are seeing on these pages, it looks like there is still a very long way to go.


Jim

[oxmixmudd]

This is why Trump is president.

Pix, I think what you actually mean is that a strong negative reaction to the sort of thinking embodied by what I wrote is why Trump is president.

But, unfortunately, that essentially means that racism is a large part of why Donald Trump is president.


Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

Pix, I think what you actually mean is that a strong negative reaction to the sort of thinking embodied by what I wrote is why Trump is president.

But, unfortunately, that essentially means that racism is a large part of why Donald Trump is president.


Jim

As usual, your TDS gets in the way of your logic. Trump won because people are tired of race bating and race baiters warping everything into racism because race inhabits their every thought and they assume it inhabits the thoughts of everyone else too. Instead of focusing on issues in the state of Florida and picking a candidate best suited for Florida, race baiters have turned it into yet another, “If you vote Republican, you’re a racist!!!” sort of issue. Trump won because he doesn’t feed into race baiters and apologize for doing nothing wrong. There’s no reason to apologize when you did nothing wrong and doing so only enforced that you did. It’s great he didn’t apologize for doing nothing wrong. That way, race baiters cant use it as a weapon.

[Terraceth]

Oh - and I suppose the disparity between the general success in white and black communities is because the black people are black?

That would be ... let's see ... racism! How about that!

Not sure how you got that impression. It's also worth pointing out that the author of that article I pointed to (Thomas Sowell) is an African-American, so I do somewhat doubt that he was making the contention you imply he was at the start of your post.

Your little article actually tries to imply black people were better off before the 1960's ... that they were better off riding in the back of the bus, better off with separate but equal, better off fearing the local KKK might decide to throw a lynching? Really?

You are missing the point. Your claim was that it was a "legacy of slavery" that is the reason for the various issues in the black community, particularly pointing to "crime-ridden neighborhoods" and poverty. But as was pointed out, things such as unemployment, crime, riots, and being raised by a single parent (which dramatically increases your odds of living in poverty) were much lower in the black community in the past, prior to the 1960's. It makes little sense to try to blame these things on "slavery" when, in a time period closer to slavery, they were less common. Sowell's even written about his first-hand experience, and how when growing up in the ghettos of Harlem (30's and 40's) there was substantially less violence and gangs than there are in modern times.

It is possible he is wrong in blaming liberal policies for the decline in these areas, and that it was other factors that occurred around that time. Certainly, I'm far from in full agreement with him on various other things he's written about. But limiting ourselves to the issue of the "legacy of slavery": If X (unemployment, crime) is not much of a problem for the first century after slavery, but becomes a big problem more than a century after slavery, it is hard to see how one can in fact blame X on some legacy of slavery. It's the classic dependent/independent variable.

The rest of your post is mostly accusing me of things I never argued, so there is little point to responding further. Indeed, the only thing I took issue with was pointing out the difficulties in your claim of "legacy of slavery" and then you decided to go off on me for a bunch of things I never stated. In fact, I even gave some level of agreement that DeSantis, if he is in fact innocent of any intentional wrongdoing, should have admitted to goofing up on the phrasing rather than being silent about it as he has been.

[oxmixmudd]

As usual, your TDS gets in the way of your logic. Trump won because people are tired of race bating and race baiters warping everything into racism because race inhabits their every thought and they assume it inhabits the thoughts of everyone else too. Instead of focusing on issues in the state of Florida and picking a candidate best suited for Florida, race baiters have turned it into yet another, “If you vote Republican, you’re a racist!!!” sort of issue. Trump won because he doesn’t feed into race baiters and apologize for doing nothing wrong. There’s no reason to apologize when you did nothing wrong and doing so only enforced that you did. It’s great he didn’t apologize for doing nothing wrong. That way, race baiters cant use it as a weapon.

Unfortunately Trump himself has acted as a racist on several occasions. So, basically, you've been duped.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Not sure how you got that impression. It's also worth pointing out that the author of that article I pointed to (Thomas Sowell) is an African-American, so I do somewhat doubt that he was making the contention you imply he was at the start of your post.

How many other options exist Terraceth. If the fact we have large concentrations of poverty and crime in nearly all the predominantly black areas of the country (which we do) then there must be a cause. We can blame it on who they are (internal) or we can blame it on some external cause keeping this population from being able to reach their full potential. If it is an external cause, I would wager that more often that not there will be a string of causality that takes you back to Slavery and/or Racism. That was my point in my first 2 comments in that reply.

You are missing the point. Your claim was that it was a "legacy of slavery" that is the reason for the various issues in the black community, particularly pointing to "crime-ridden neighborhoods" and poverty. But as was pointed out, things such as unemployment, crime, riots, and being raised by a single parent (which dramatically increases your odds of living in poverty) were much lower in the black community in the past, prior to the 1960's. It makes little sense to try to blame these things on "slavery" when, in a time period closer to slavery, they were less common. Sowell's even written about his first-hand experience, and how when growing up in the ghettos of Harlem (30's and 40's) there was substantially less violence and gangs than there are in modern times.

Sowell is being short sighted. He's only looking at immediate causes, not the legacy of causes that brought us where we are. Ultimately, slavery and racism created the conditions that have allowed these elements to prosper in black neighborhoods. Ask - why can't these things prosper in white neighborhoods? All things equal, why could these things take such a stronger hold in the black sections of town? Poverty? - what caused that. Lack of education? - what caused that? Is it some cultural difference? Where did that cultural difference come from? Why are there even 'black sections of cities' in the first place? And why are they almost universally poorer than the White areas? Eventually the cause of these differences is a legacy of Slavery and its close ally Racism.

It is possible he is wrong in blaming liberal policies for the decline in these areas, and that it was other factors that occurred around that time. Certainly, I'm far from in full agreement with him on various other things he's written about. But limiting ourselves to the issue of the "legacy of slavery": If X (unemployment, crime) is not much of a problem for the first century after slavery, but becomes a big problem more than a century after slavery, it is hard to see how one can in fact blame X on some legacy of slavery. It's the classic dependent/independent variable.

Come on - are you trying to say that employment was equal between blacks and whites in the '50s? What was the typical job for black women in the '50s. For a black man. Was it the same as for white people at that time? Did these disparities pave the way for the decline we've seen since then which has had far more impact on black communities than white communities. And again, why is that?

The rest of your post is mostly accusing me of things I never argued, so there is little point to responding further. Indeed, the only thing I took issue with was pointing out the difficulties in your claim of "legacy of slavery" and then you decided to go off on me for a bunch of things I never stated. In fact, I even gave some level of agreement that DeSantis, if he is in fact innocent of any intentional wrongdoing, should have admitted to goofing up on the phrasing rather than being silent about it as he has been.

The rest of the post was just trying to show what some of the legacies of slavery are. Yes our society has ostensibly has moved past the almost universal white/black racism of the early 20th century to a much less racist situation overall. But it is still a very, very long road from an upbringing in these very poor black urban areas to some semblance of a normal, stable life by white standards. And these areas exist now, today, because of the long chain of causes and effects that played out over the history or racism and oppression birthed from the attitudes surrounding and embracing enslavement of Africans in this country.

The Legacy of Slavery and its close ally Racism still presents almost insurmountable odds to many in the black population. And the unwillingness to address the Racism that still exists further enables that legacy, allows it to continue on.

Part of the problem is the Trumpian unwillingness to admit a mistake. The Trumpian unwillingness to be respectful of others. To just do what WE think makes sense and not listen to how others see the world, to be unwilling to empathize in that regard. If a black man tells you the use of Monkey in this statement by this man makes him see "racism" on that man's forehead, then why not try to understand WHY that is the case? Instead of him being 'overly sensitive', could it be black people endure many more racist comments in general than we expect, that there are more racist people out there cursing them and belittling them than we expect? Could it be that they are NOT crying wolf but have lived and experienced a very different view of how racist white people are in this country and therefore are far more likely to recognize it when it happens?




Jim

[Mountain Man]

Unfortunately Trump himself has acted as a racist on several occasions.

No he hasn't.

[lilpixieofterror]

Unfortunately Trump himself has acted as a racist on several occasions. So, basically, you've been duped.

Jim

Evidence please. Let me guess, this evidence comes from the same race baiters that force Republicans to apologize for doing nothing wrong and than bash them over the head with it forever and ever?

[oxmixmudd]

Evidence please. Let me guess, this evidence comes from the same race baiters that force Republicans to apologize for doing nothing wrong and than bash them over the head with it forever and ever?

Though I'm not willing to leave the issue of DeSantis comments behind (at least not in this thread) I will briefly address the issue of Trump.

The evidence has been given. His (lack of) reaction to the David Duke endorsements, the way he handled the Charlottesville event, His continued attacks on the intelligence of Black people who have worked for him or crossed him, his references to Central America (hispanic) and Africa (black) as Sh....ole countries preferring white European Nations like the Netherlands and Asia. And there is a rather long list if incidents that precede his presidency. He continues to forward articles and conspiracy theories that are the product of racist organizations.

While I do understand that some see a racist in every white man, what you call 'race baiting' on these pages is for the most part clearly recognizable from my experience as being racism. As I said, I've been around it all my life. In Florida, in Alabama, in North Carolina, Mississippi and Georgia, and now Maryland and Baltimore (which in many ways has worse problems than many areas in North Carolina).

I know what it looks like when they are full on white supremacists.

I know what it looks like when they are just good 'ol boys that hate xyz

I know what it looks like when they claim they aren't racist but they really are through and through.
(e.g. "I'm not racist but ...")

I know what it looks like when a person actually cares about the issue and wants not to be.




Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

Though I'm not willing to leave the issue of DeSantis comments behind (at least not in this thread) I will briefly address the issue of Trump.

The evidence has been given. His (lack of) reaction to the David Duke endorsements, the way he handled the Charlottesville event, His continued attacks on the intelligence of Black people who have worked for him or crossed him, his references to Central America (hispanic) and Africa (black) as Sh....ole countries preferring white European Nations like the Netherlands and Asia. And there is a rather long list if incidents that precede his presidency. He continues to forward articles and conspiracy theories that are the product of racist organizations.

While I do understand that some see a racist in every white man, what you call 'race baiting' on these pages is for the most part clearly recognizable from my experience as being racism. As I said, I've been around it all my life. In Florida, in Alabama, in North Carolina, Mississippi and Georgia, and now Maryland and Baltimore (which in many ways has worse problems than many areas in North Carolina).

I know what it looks like when they are full on white supremacists.

I know what it looks like when they are just good 'ol boys that hate xyz

I know what it looks like when they claim they aren't racist but they really are through and through.
(e.g. "I'm not racist but ...")

I know what it looks like when a person actually cares about the issue and wants not to be.




Jim

None of those really sound all that racist and sound a lot like looking for racism behind every tree.

1. I heard he rejected his endorsement. Can you explain what would be the right amount of rejection should be?
2. So blaming both sides for rioting is wrong? Interesting...
3. He makes the same remarks towards white people too, so is he racist towards whites too?
4. Ever been to those countries? I hear plenty of Hispanics and blacks use similar terms too. Are they racist?

Like I said, quite a lot of opinion, very little fact to back it up. See, do you personally know Trump? No. We’re you personally present for those events in question? No, so what you got is filtered through the highly biased media filter that hates him with a passion. Sorry, but what you know is what the media told you to believe.

[JimL]

As usual, your TDS gets in the way of your logic. Trump won because people are tired of race bating and race baiters warping everything into racism because race inhabits their every thought and they assume it inhabits the thoughts of everyone else too. Instead of focusing on issues in the state of Florida and picking a candidate best suited for Florida, race baiters have turned it into yet another, “If you vote Republican, you’re a racist!!!” sort of issue. Trump won because he doesn’t feed into race baiters and apologize for doing nothing wrong. There’s no reason to apologize when you did nothing wrong and doing so only enforced that you did. It’s great he didn’t apologize for doing nothing wrong. That way, race baiters cant use it as a weapon.

So Trump won simply because people are sick of being called racists? It had nothing to do with issues, just race and racism? I think you've given yourself away there Lilpix.

[lilpixieofterror]

So Trump won simply because people are sick of being called racists? It had nothing to do with issues, just race and racism? I think you've given yourself away there Lilpix.

My dear sweet Jim, there’s several reasons and screaming, “THAT’S RACIST!!!” Every single time a Republican says something is among those reasons. Keep up the campaign trail for 2020. Another 4 years.

[JimL]

My dear sweet Jim, there’s several reasons and screaming, “THAT’S RACIST!!!” Every single time a Republican says something is among those reasons. Keep up the campaign trail for 2020. Another 4 years.

You said that Trump won because those who voted for him, like you, were tired of being called racists. I kind of agree with you in that a lot of Trumps supporters hate it when Trumps racism, and the racism in their party is pointed out, but thats not why he lost the popular vote by 3 million and won the electoral college, he won the outdated electoral college because Russian interference pushed him over the top by a few thousand votes in 3 states. At any rate, he'll be lucky to finish his first term before he's impeached, indicted or is forced to resign, never mind another 4 years.

[lilpixieofterror]

You said that Trump won because those who voted for him, like you, were tired of being called racists. I kind of agree with you in that a lot of Trumps supporters hate it when Trumps racism, and the racism in their party is pointed out, but thats not why he lost the popular vote by 3 million and won the electoral college, he won the outdated electoral college because Russian interference pushed him over the top by a few thousand votes in 3 states. At any rate, he'll be lucky to finish his first term before he's impeached, indicted or is forced to resign, never mind another 4 years.

I love your delusional world that you live in, but sorry, Clinton won the popular vote by running up the total in California by 4 million. Across the rest of the US, she lost by a million votes. Second, I said this was one of the reasons why, but I suppose I need to explain that to you in plain language next time. Third, Russia changed zero votes. The latest red scare was invented by democrats to explain away their loss vs admitting their candidate sucked and their game of forever having their opponents prove they are not sexist, racist, homophobic bigots no longer works. Keep going Jimmy, I’d love another glass of liberal tears for the next 6 years.

[JimL]

I love your delusional world that you live in, but sorry, Clinton won the popular vote by running up the total in California by 4 million. Across the rest of the US, she lost by a million votes. Second, I said this was one of the reasons why, but I suppose I need to explain that to you in plain language next time. Third, Russia changed zero votes. The latest red scare was invented by democrats to explain away their loss vs admitting their candidate sucked and their game of forever having their opponents prove they are not sexist, racist, homophobic bigots no longer works. Keep going Jimmy, I’d love another glass of liberal tears for the next 6 years.

Don't resort to lying now Lilpix, you didn't say that the race issue was one of the reasons Trump won, you said it was the reason he won. Second, you have no idea how many votes Russia may have influenced with their coordinated influence/conspiracy scheme. Third, you don't get to discount state vote tallys in order to convince yourself that Trump actually won the popular vote. He lost the popular vote by 3 million, period. And 4th, parroting Trump about the fake red scare really makes you look naive and stupid.