DeSantis Uses Racist Dog Whistle...

[Mountain Man]

That simply isn't true NR. The way monkey is used by racists is exactly the sort of under the table substitution this could be. Change "muck this up" or "mess this up" to 'Monkey this up' and to the racist you immediately obtain the alternate meaning.

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[carpedm9587]

That simply isn't true NR. The way monkey is used by racists is exactly the sort of under the table substitution this could be. Change "muck this up" or "mess this up" to 'Monkey this up' and to the racist you immediately obtain the alternate meaning. which is, plainly and simply, this:

Don't MESS this up by letting a MONKEY be governor.

It's clever in a way, Monkey carries a relevant double meaning in this case, and so it carries that meaning to anyone that is familiar with how the term is used in a racist context, not naive about how the term is used by racists.

So what we get back to then is what Carpe tried to get to, is there a reason to believe this politician would be motivated to make that little substitution on purpose.

But nowhere does it mean the people offended by that are 'dishonest and/or depraved'. That is, in many ways, a sick conclusion. Racism is NOT dead in this country. As far as we've come, we still have a ways to go. And it is nothing less than ignorant to pretend there is something wrong with the people that took offense.

However, it would be very simple for DeSantis to defuse this.

"Wow, I am so sorry. I see how that could have been taken, and I give you my word it was simply a mistake. Please accept my apology and know I work hard to make sure my speech and life relflects not one element of the depravity that would have made it possible for such a phrase to imply I was meaning that my primary issue with Gillum was related to his race. Gillum is a worthy opponent but we disagree on issues of policy."

So why can't he just do that (at least as of this writing I see no indication he has)? Because either it's not true (he did mean it to carry a racist impllication), he's clueless as to the effect of racism over history (and there are plenty here in that camp, so a real possibility) or he simply isn't capable of being gracious just like the Conspiracy Theorist in Chief.

Which again brings into view just how a man like Trump in office degrades this country and lowers the bar of public discourse to the point of real shame.

Jim

[carpedm9587]

Has anybody been able to show any kind of racist pattern in this guy at ALL, besides this "monkey" comment?

I have not, but his refusal to even begin to apologize for use of a word with strong racist overtones makes me wonder if his purpose is not to cement his support among racists while maintaining plausible deniability for those who are not racist. If he comes flat out and says, "bad choice of words - should not have used it in that context, he risks alienating that racist base.

The Republican party has fallen a long way from Dole's unequivocal statement at the 1996 Republican Convention:

The Republican Party is broad and inclusive. It represents many streams of opinion and many points of view. But if there's anyone who has mistakenly attached themselves to our party in the belief that we are not open to citizens of every race and religion, then let me remind you -- tonight this hall belongs to the party of Lincoln. And the exits, which are clearly marked, are for you to walk out of as I stand this ground without compromise.

Today we get, "there are good people on both sides," and the "never apologize, it makes you look weak" mantra. It's rather sad, actually.

[Mountain Man]

...his refusal to even begin to apologize for use of a word with strong racist overtones...

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One of my posts from earlier in the thread:

You've never heard the phrase "monkeying around"? Or "more fun than a barrel of monkeys"? What about "This job is so easy, even a trained monkey could do it"? "Clever as a cartload of monkeys"? "Monkey suit"? How about "monkey business", "monkey see, monkey do", "Well, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle!", "a monkey on one’s back", etc?

None of these phrases have a racist connotation. At all.

[Sparko]

Except I never heard it in New Orleans either. Odd...

New Orleans is it's own world.

[Sparko]

Not much, just enough to say that he deserved the boos he got. Honestly its you guys who are looking for things to be outraged over, not me.



I did check various copies of it, and they all clearly misreported it. Only one or two, which I found after Charles's post had the full quote. The others seem actually to have cited each other's headlines!

That's quite dishonest.

I agree. Nowadays, it seems "news" organizations don't bother actually reporting news directly, they just quote other news sources and summarize what the other people said. Sometimes you can follow the rabbit trail through several levels before you get to the primary news source. I always try to do that. I will check for a news story reporting another news source "according to WXMP news, blah blah blah" and then go look up that source until I find the original.

[Sparko]

I have not, but his refusal to even begin to apologize for use of a word with strong racist overtones makes me wonder if his purpose is not to cement his support among racists while maintaining plausible deniability for those who are not racist. If he comes flat out and says, "bad choice of words - should not have used it in that context, he risks alienating that racist base.

You would only apologize if you did something wrong. By apologizing he would be admitting to using the term in a racist manner. "See? He DID call his opponent a monkey!!"

The Republican party has fallen a long way from Dole's unequivocal statement at the 1996 Republican Convention:

The Republican Party is broad and inclusive. It represents many streams of opinion and many points of view. But if there's anyone who has mistakenly attached themselves to our party in the belief that we are not open to citizens of every race and religion, then let me remind you -- tonight this hall belongs to the party of Lincoln. And the exits, which are clearly marked, are for you to walk out of as I stand this ground without compromise.

Today we get, "there are good people on both sides," and the "never apologize, it makes you look weak" mantra. It's rather sad, actually.

A typical liberal strategy in recent years has been to accuse the right of some heinous act in order to force them to apologize for something they didn't even do. It puts them on the defensive and gives the liberal the "high ground"

They recently did this with Papa John, a pizza place owner who mentioned that KFC's Colonel Sanders used the N-word (but he actually said the word). He was then accused of using the N-word himself and actually forced out of his own company.

[Mountain Man]

A typical liberal strategy in recent years has been to accuse the right of some heinous act in order to force them to apologize for something they didn't even do. It puts them on the defensive and gives the liberal the "high ground"

One of the reasons Trump won is because the old Democrat playbook didn't work on him; he didn't try to play the "gentleman politician" and apologize for every perceived sleight.

[JimL]

And it isn't like it stopped

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Nor did it start with "W":

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There were others but far too vulgar to post


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There were a bunch with Reagan as well (his connection with the old Bonzo movies made it a natural), although I couldn't find any online.

Who was the opposing political candidate that posted these, Rogue? We're talking about the irresponsible and blatant racism coming from our political leaders, not the obvious idiocy that sometimes comes from the general public.

[Cow Poke]

I have not

Nor, it seems, has anybody else.

[JimL]

Nor, it seems, has anybody else.

What does that matter, he is playing to a base who he understands to have racist fears, whether he is racist himself or not.

[carpedm9587]

One of my posts from earlier in the thread:

A phrase with no racist connotation in one context can acquire it in a different context.

"It must be that time of the month" is not a gender slur when you and I are discussing billing; but it becomes one if we are discussing the angry response we just heard a woman give to a question. Likewise, "monkey it up" does not have a racial connotation, until you apply the phrase in reference to electing a black man. Because the term "monkey" is used as a derogatory racial slur for black people, you're inviting exactly the kind of response that is happening by using it in a public forum.

[carpedm9587]

You would only apologize if you did something wrong.

I also apologize when I have inadvertently said or done something that caused harm. If I turn a corner and run head-on into another person, I didn't do anything "wrong." I had an accident. I still apologize to the person I hit.

By apologizing he would be admitting to using the term in a racist manner. "See? He DID call his opponent a monkey!!"

It is simple enough to say, "My intention was to alert people to the risk of introducing socialism to our state when things are going so well. My use of the term "monkey" was not well thought through, given the way that term has been, and is still, used as a racist slur. I intended no insult to Mr. Gillum and respect him as an opponent. I apologize if any insult was perceived. None was intended."

A typical liberal strategy in recent years has been to accuse the right of some heinous act in order to force them to apologize for something they didn't even do. It puts them on the defensive and gives the liberal the "high ground"

Yeah...I've never seen the right do anything like that...

They recently did this with Papa John, a pizza place owner who mentioned that KFC's Colonel Sanders used the N-word (but he actually said the word). He was then accused of using the N-word himself and actually forced out of his own company.

I struggle with these examples. On one hand, I understand that for a white person to use that word, given it's history, is (or can be) inappropriate. On the other hand, part of me feels it wanders a bit into politically correct speech when we bar people from using a given word absolutely and without respect to context. Substituting "the N-word" and "the F-bomb" for the actual word seems a little childish. To me, there is nothing wrong with anyone of any race saying, "The term "nigger' was long used as a racial slur, and should not be used in polite company."

I'm going to go out on a limb, however, and bet that if I write "The word '• Edited by a Moderator •' is considered a crude and derogatory reference to the human sex act and should not be said in polite company or public arenas," I'm going to be edited by a mod. So is there a difference...?

Moderated By: rogue06

You knew full well the term is against forum decorum

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

[carpedm9587]

Nor, it seems, has anybody else.

You know, the practice of editing a person's response when you are replying with "QUOTE" tags is somewhat disingenuous, especially when you provide no indication that you have done so. For those following this thread, my response was more nuanced than "I have not." Those were merely the first three words.

[carpedm9587]

One of the reasons Trump won is because the old Democrat playbook didn't work on him; he didn't try to play the "gentleman politician" and apologize for every perceived sleight.

The term "gentleman" doesn't apply to Trump in the least. That we would consider that a "good" thing is a sad commentary on our country and those who hold this position. I have to wonder what most of us, as parents, would do if our children acted the way Trump acts. I know my children would be facing significant consequences.