Trump's true colors ...

[Cow Poke]

My use of the term lawbreaker was not meant to be 'literal' in the sense you are asking.That is, it was not meant to imply Trump committed a crime asking Sessions to do that.

Wow, so you accusing him of breaking the law, but now say that was not meant literally? That was the basis on which your post was.....

[Zymologist]

Wow, so you accusing him of breaking the law, but now say that was not meant literally? That was the basis on which your post was.....

I think the issue is that you're taking oxmixmudd literally, but not seriously.

[Littlejoe]

My use of the term lawbreaker was not meant to be 'literal' in the sense you are asking.That is, it was not meant to imply Trump committed a crime asking Sessions to do that.


Q:Is asking a prosecutor to scuttle an indictment based on solid evidence against a person for political reasons 'against the law'?

A:I have no idea.


Q:Does asking a prosecutor to scuttle such an indictment against a person for political reasons undermine the rule of law?

A:Yes.


Q:Is a person who undermines the rule of law a law breaker?
A:In my opinion - yes. And that is the sense of my use of the word lawbreaker.


So given that, for the more literal audience assuming that I accused Trump of literally committing a crime, the 1st item should have said : an under-miner of the rule of law.



Jim

ETA: Interesting quote from Paul Ryan on this:

Source: Ryan

"Justice is blind, justice should be blind. It should have no respect with respect to political party. Look, I mean, that's the emblem of the Justice Department: blind justice," he said. "So I think it's very important that we respect the fact that justice should be blind. It should have no impact on political party, and I think the process is working its way as it should."

© Copyright Original Source

but - of course - he didn't directly say Trump was out of line.

And you wonder why you are more and more being taken with a "literal" grain of salt? I used to think you were a standard for moderation and reason...it's quickly becoming evident that your TDS is the equivalent to Jorge's YEC. Very sad!

[Terraceth]

And you wonder why you are more and more being taken with a "literal" grain of salt? I used to think you were a standard for moderation and reason...it's quickly becoming evident that your TDS is the equivalent to Jorge's YEC. Very sad!

Maybe oxmixmudd can go too far in regards to Trump, but to compare him to Jorge? That's totally unwarranted.

[oxmixmudd]

And you wonder why you are more and more being taken with a "literal" grain of salt? I used to think you were a standard for moderation and reason...it's quickly becoming evident that your TDS is the equivalent to Jorge's YEC. Very sad!

The problem with some of these posts is I put them up too quickly and don't think carefully enough about how many different ways the lot of you will try to divert from the actual point being made. And I'm not taking enough time to make sure my choice of words actually conveys the sometimes complex concepts I'm trying to pinpoint. And I will apologize for that.

But I also have seriously underestimated how much each of you is willing to compromise your own integrity to defend this guy. I still am amazed at the turns you take, the actions you work overtime to defend. So excuse me for reacting poorly and not thinking clearly while in a state of actual shock.

I must realize your commitment to Trump is absolute, and that every technical slip will become an excuse to dismiss the larger point. I will post less and take more time and perhaps I can plug more potential holes and give you guys less room to justify the unjustifiable.

---

Trump asked Sessions not to indict two people that are the target of serious investigations for breaking serious laws because they supported Him and are member of the GOP.

He did it publicly. He clearly thinks Sessions loyalty should be to him and not the Department of Justice. Not to the rule of law. Not to the country he swore to defend and work for.

Trump has turned viciously on someone who has stood by him from the beginning of his candidacy because he has principles, and he has Turned on him because he did not put Trump before country, before his principles and commitment.

Sessions is not a liberal. Far from it. Sessions is a religious man with real faith. Sessions is everything you should be willing to defend, thus the typical paradox you find yourselves in between the immorality of the left vs the immorality of Trump should not exist.

I was hopeful that would be bad enough you would actually be offended by that. That you could begin to see the 'true colors' of this person that is now leading this country.


Clearly it was not.



Jim

[Cow Poke]

Trump asked Sessions not to indict two people that are the target of serious investigations for breaking serious laws because they supported Him and are member of the GOP.

He did it publicly. He clearly thinks Sessions loyalty should be to him and not the Department of Justice. Not to the rule of law. Not to the country he swore to defend and work for.

It is not "defending Trump" to ask politely for you to back up your claim that Trump violated the law. You have not yet done that, but you have plenty of energy to kick your fellow Christians in the teeth.

I'm disengaging.

Have fun with your broad brush attacks of the brethren.

[oxmixmudd]

It is not "defending Trump" to ask politely for you to back up your claim that Trump violated the law. You have not yet done that, but you have plenty of energy to kick your fellow Christians in the teeth.

I'm disengaging.

Have fun with your broad brush attacks of the brethren.

I told you what I was thinking when I used the term lawbreaker. There isn't anything else for me to say.

You feel free to do what you want. This country needs its Christian citizens to stand up to Trumps destructive behavior. Not stand behind him when he behaves immorally. You will disconnect from me because I point out Trump has turned on Sessions, also a brother. You will not defend Sessions and you will not stand against what is happening here.

And if you want to call me pointing out how wrong that is 'kicking you in the teeth', then so be it.

But a better reaction would be to stand up and push back against Trumps actions.



Jim

[Cow Poke]

I told you what I was thinking when I used the term lawbreaker. There isn't anything else for me to say.

How bout, "ok, I got carried away a little..."

You feel free to do what you want. This country needs its Christian citizens to stand up to Trumps destructive behavior. Not stand behind him when he behaves immorally.

If you'd take a breath and calm down a bit, you'd see I'm not defending Trump at all -- I was simply asking for clarification. It's polite discourse. I hate it that Trump is treating Sessions that way, but as vile as it may be, it is not illegal, as you had stated.

You will disconnect from me because I point out Trump has turned on Sessions, also a brother.

No, I'm disengaging because you seem full of rage and hate, and it's not healthy for you. And I have not defended Trump's actions against Sessions at all. Your anger is getting the best of you.

You will not defend Sessions and you will not stand against what is happening here.

Again, you are blinded by your anger, and you are full of false allegations based on false assumptions.

And if you want to call me pointing out how wrong that is 'kicking you in the teeth', then so be it.

It is wrong for you to blast somebody because, in your own anger, you jump to unwarranted conclusions. You can't even see what this is doing to you.

But a better reaction would be to stand up and push back against Trumps actions.

I have an obligation as a Christian to call you out for your unwarranted attacks, Jim. I suspect, however, this will only make you angrier.

You are allowing your hatred of Trump to overflow into attacks on people who have held you in high esteem. It truly is sad.

[Zymologist]

The problem with some of these posts is I put them up too quickly and don't think carefully enough about how many different ways the lot of you will try to divert from the actual point being made. And I'm not taking enough time to make sure my choice of words actually conveys the sometimes complex concepts I'm trying to pinpoint. And I will apologize for that.

But I also have seriously underestimated how much each of you is willing to compromise your own integrity to defend this guy. I still am amazed at the turns you take, the actions you work overtime to defend. So excuse me for reacting poorly and not thinking clearly while in a state of actual shock.

I must realize your commitment to Trump is absolute, and that every technical slip will become an excuse to dismiss the larger point. I will post less and take more time and perhaps I can plug more potential holes and give you guys less room to justify the unjustifiable.

---

Trump asked Sessions not to indict two people that are the target of serious investigations for breaking serious laws because they supported Him and are member of the GOP.

He did it publicly. He clearly thinks Sessions loyalty should be to him and not the Department of Justice. Not to the rule of law. Not to the country he swore to defend and work for.

Trump has turned viciously on someone who has stood by him from the beginning of his candidacy because he has principles, and he has Turned on him because he did not put Trump before country, before his principles and commitment.

Sessions is not a liberal. Far from it. Sessions is a religious man with real faith. Sessions is everything you should be willing to defend, thus the typical paradox you find yourselves in between the immorality of the left vs the immorality of Trump should not exist.

I was hopeful that would be bad enough you would actually be offended by that. That you could begin to see the 'true colors' of this person that is now leading this country.


Clearly it was not.



Jim

Do you think rhetoric like this (against fellow Christians, and which you've been using frequently) is helpful?

ETA: I've thought now and again about posting on some of these Trump threads, but part of the reason I haven't is the amount of character questioning and "oh, so you worship Trump, do you?" that inevitably follows.

[Mountain Man]

I also have seriously underestimated how much each of you is willing to compromise your own integrity to defend this guy.

I've underestimated how much you're willing to compromise your own integrity by leveling false accusations against our duly elected president and then refusing to substantiate your claims when asked.

[Cow Poke]

Do you think rhetoric like this (against fellow Christians, and which you've been using frequently) is helpful?

ETA: I've thought now and again about posting on some of these Trump threads, but part of the reason I haven't is the amount of character questioning and "oh, so you worship Trump, do you?" that inevitably follows.

Simply asking an honest question for clarification gets you a whoopin', so, yeah.

Somehow, that translates into "you're the enemy, you must die!"



(yeah, a little drama thrown in for free)

[lilpixieofterror]

I told you what I was thinking when I used the term lawbreaker. There isn't anything else for me to say.

You feel free to do what you want. This country needs its Christian citizens to stand up to Trumps destructive behavior. Not stand behind him when he behaves immorally. You will disconnect from me because I point out Trump has turned on Sessions, also a brother. You will not defend Sessions and you will not stand against what is happening here.

And if you want to call me pointing out how wrong that is 'kicking you in the teeth', then so be it.

But a better reaction would be to stand up and push back against Trumps actions.



Jim

And yet you believe in a media that lies for a living. You should keep up with the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings and the behavior that results. Sitting members of congress acting like children, the media that lied about a women making a white supremest sign that has a Jewish and Mexican background, or a false charge that Kavanaugh refused to shake hands with the father of a school shooting victim. I guess using your own logic, you must have compromised your own intergity yourself. Don’t you just love it when your own logic cuts off your head?

[oxmixmudd]

And yet you believe in a media that lies for a living.

No, actually they don't. You people like to banter TDS around, but you have this obsessive fear of one of the most important elements of our democracy: The Free Press. And that fear is essentially allowing you to live in a bubble and you just are not getting a good view of what is happening. Heck, even when you look you don't want to see. You think every story, every event has been cast and chosen to create a false picture of what is 'really' going on. And this paranoia is the wave Trump has leveraged to manipulate a lot of good people into standing with him.

Cable news is mostly opinion - that is true for Fox and CNN and MSNBC and whatever. But 'the news', the actual articles written by the reporters out there covering what is happening are for the most part written by professionals. Professionals working under certain ideals designed to create unbiased reporting. And we have access to multiple writers on every topic. I am generally impressed when I read those articles by how they try to present multiple sides of the story, and how they report even what is detrimental to what may well be their personal opinion.

At the same time, I am not blind to the biases of the various media sources, and no-one, no matter how hard they try, can truly be unbiased. But all one really needs to do is broaden one's scope and read articles from multiple opposing potential biases to get a clearer picture of how the facts can be viewed from different perspectives.

But no, I am officially pushing back on that line. That line is Trump fed and ignorance base paranoia. The media does not 'lie for a living'. These reporters go to extreme lengths to bring us information about the world that is as honest and as unbiased as they can make it. Sometimes they literally risk their lives and put themselves in the middle of extremely hostile situations to make sure we can have that information. And they do not deserve to be painted the way conservatives in this country paint them.


Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Do you think rhetoric like this (against fellow Christians, and which you've been using frequently) is helpful?

ETA: I've thought now and again about posting on some of these Trump threads, but part of the reason I haven't is the amount of character questioning and "oh, so you worship Trump, do you?" that inevitably follows.

What else is there to say when Christians will not speak out against true evil. I'm sorry I'm ruffling feathers, I'd really rather not be in that position. But I feel I have no choice but to speak out as best I can.

But what have we come to when a call to righteousness, one Christian to another, is met with 'Don't you judge me - I can do whatever I want'? I'm not complaining about anything that is not absolutely clear in Scripture. This is not 'meat offered to idols'. This is adultery, betrayal, lying on a daily basis about issue that affect more than 300,000,000 people. This is about the mental and emotional fitness of the leader of the free world and Christians that will excuse almost anything he does no matter how vile or evil it is.

We have pledged to make Christ Lord. We cannot excuse Trumps behavior and pretend it is all ok because some of the things he's doing might work out and because we don't want Liberals like Hillary Clinton in power. We certainly didn't do that with Bill Clinton, and we did not do it with Obama. Do you suppose that switching the label to GOP makes us any less responsible to speak for what is good and true?


Jim

[Cow Poke]

What else is there to say when Christians will not speak out against true evil. I'm sorry I'm ruffling feathers, I'd really rather not be in that position. But I feel I have no choice but to speak out as best I can.

You DO have a choice - you could dial the drama way down and try civil discussion instead of unfounded false allegations against the brethren - that's the job of Satan.

Trump's treatment of Sessions is deplorable - I'm not the only one who has said that.

You're not "speaking out as best you can", Jim - you're capable of far better than this. You're simply thunderfarting rage. And a lot of it is entirely misdirected.