Originally posted by oxmixmudd
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Trump's true colors ...
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWow, so you accusing him of breaking the law, but now say that was not meant literally? That was the basis on which your post was.....I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostMy use of the term lawbreaker was not meant to be 'literal' in the sense you are asking.That is, it was not meant to imply Trump committed a crime asking Sessions to do that.
Q:Is asking a prosecutor to scuttle an indictment based on solid evidence against a person for political reasons 'against the law'?
A:I have no idea.
Q:Does asking a prosecutor to scuttle such an indictment against a person for political reasons undermine the rule of law?
A:Yes.
Q:Is a person who undermines the rule of law a law breaker?
A:In my opinion - yes. And that is the sense of my use of the word lawbreaker.
So given that, for the more literal audience assuming that I accused Trump of literally committing a crime, the 1st item should have said : an under-miner of the rule of law.
Jim
ETA: Interesting quote from Paul Ryan on this:
but - of course - he didn't directly say Trump was out of line."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostAnd you wonder why you are more and more being taken with a "literal" grain of salt? I used to think you were a standard for moderation and reason...it's quickly becoming evident that your TDS is the equivalent to Jorge's YEC. Very sad!
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostAnd you wonder why you are more and more being taken with a "literal" grain of salt? I used to think you were a standard for moderation and reason...it's quickly becoming evident that your TDS is the equivalent to Jorge's YEC. Very sad!
But I also have seriously underestimated how much each of you is willing to compromise your own integrity to defend this guy. I still am amazed at the turns you take, the actions you work overtime to defend. So excuse me for reacting poorly and not thinking clearly while in a state of actual shock.
I must realize your commitment to Trump is absolute, and that every technical slip will become an excuse to dismiss the larger point. I will post less and take more time and perhaps I can plug more potential holes and give you guys less room to justify the unjustifiable.
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Trump asked Sessions not to indict two people that are the target of serious investigations for breaking serious laws because they supported Him and are member of the GOP.
He did it publicly. He clearly thinks Sessions loyalty should be to him and not the Department of Justice. Not to the rule of law. Not to the country he swore to defend and work for.
Trump has turned viciously on someone who has stood by him from the beginning of his candidacy because he has principles, and he has Turned on him because he did not put Trump before country, before his principles and commitment.
Sessions is not a liberal. Far from it. Sessions is a religious man with real faith. Sessions is everything you should be willing to defend, thus the typical paradox you find yourselves in between the immorality of the left vs the immorality of Trump should not exist.
I was hopeful that would be bad enough you would actually be offended by that. That you could begin to see the 'true colors' of this person that is now leading this country.
Clearly it was not.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 09-05-2018, 07:15 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostTrump asked Sessions not to indict two people that are the target of serious investigations for breaking serious laws because they supported Him and are member of the GOP.
He did it publicly. He clearly thinks Sessions loyalty should be to him and not the Department of Justice. Not to the rule of law. Not to the country he swore to defend and work for.
It is not "defending Trump" to ask politely for you to back up your claim that Trump violated the law. You have not yet done that, but you have plenty of energy to kick your fellow Christians in the teeth.
I'm disengaging.
Have fun with your broad brush attacks of the brethren.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt is not "defending Trump" to ask politely for you to back up your claim that Trump violated the law. You have not yet done that, but you have plenty of energy to kick your fellow Christians in the teeth.
I'm disengaging.
Have fun with your broad brush attacks of the brethren.
You feel free to do what you want. This country needs its Christian citizens to stand up to Trumps destructive behavior. Not stand behind him when he behaves immorally. You will disconnect from me because I point out Trump has turned on Sessions, also a brother. You will not defend Sessions and you will not stand against what is happening here.
And if you want to call me pointing out how wrong that is 'kicking you in the teeth', then so be it.
But a better reaction would be to stand up and push back against Trumps actions.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI told you what I was thinking when I used the term lawbreaker. There isn't anything else for me to say.
You feel free to do what you want. This country needs its Christian citizens to stand up to Trumps destructive behavior. Not stand behind him when he behaves immorally.
You will disconnect from me because I point out Trump has turned on Sessions, also a brother.
You will not defend Sessions and you will not stand against what is happening here.
And if you want to call me pointing out how wrong that is 'kicking you in the teeth', then so be it.
But a better reaction would be to stand up and push back against Trumps actions.
You are allowing your hatred of Trump to overflow into attacks on people who have held you in high esteem. It truly is sad.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThe problem with some of these posts is I put them up too quickly and don't think carefully enough about how many different ways the lot of you will try to divert from the actual point being made. And I'm not taking enough time to make sure my choice of words actually conveys the sometimes complex concepts I'm trying to pinpoint. And I will apologize for that.
But I also have seriously underestimated how much each of you is willing to compromise your own integrity to defend this guy. I still am amazed at the turns you take, the actions you work overtime to defend. So excuse me for reacting poorly and not thinking clearly while in a state of actual shock.
I must realize your commitment to Trump is absolute, and that every technical slip will become an excuse to dismiss the larger point. I will post less and take more time and perhaps I can plug more potential holes and give you guys less room to justify the unjustifiable.
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Trump asked Sessions not to indict two people that are the target of serious investigations for breaking serious laws because they supported Him and are member of the GOP.
He did it publicly. He clearly thinks Sessions loyalty should be to him and not the Department of Justice. Not to the rule of law. Not to the country he swore to defend and work for.
Trump has turned viciously on someone who has stood by him from the beginning of his candidacy because he has principles, and he has Turned on him because he did not put Trump before country, before his principles and commitment.
Sessions is not a liberal. Far from it. Sessions is a religious man with real faith. Sessions is everything you should be willing to defend, thus the typical paradox you find yourselves in between the immorality of the left vs the immorality of Trump should not exist.
I was hopeful that would be bad enough you would actually be offended by that. That you could begin to see the 'true colors' of this person that is now leading this country.
Clearly it was not.
Jim
ETA: I've thought now and again about posting on some of these Trump threads, but part of the reason I haven't is the amount of character questioning and "oh, so you worship Trump, do you?" that inevitably follows.Last edited by Zymologist; 09-05-2018, 08:31 PM.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View PostI also have seriously underestimated how much each of you is willing to compromise your own integrity to defend this guy.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostDo you think rhetoric like this (against fellow Christians, and which you've been using frequently) is helpful?
ETA: I've thought now and again about posting on some of these Trump threads, but part of the reason I haven't is the amount of character questioning and "oh, so you worship Trump, do you?" that inevitably follows.
Somehow, that translates into "you're the enemy, you must die!"
(yeah, a little drama thrown in for free)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI told you what I was thinking when I used the term lawbreaker. There isn't anything else for me to say.
You feel free to do what you want. This country needs its Christian citizens to stand up to Trumps destructive behavior. Not stand behind him when he behaves immorally. You will disconnect from me because I point out Trump has turned on Sessions, also a brother. You will not defend Sessions and you will not stand against what is happening here.
And if you want to call me pointing out how wrong that is 'kicking you in the teeth', then so be it.
But a better reaction would be to stand up and push back against Trumps actions.
JimLast edited by lilpixieofterror; 09-05-2018, 09:43 PM."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostAnd yet you believe in a media that lies for a living.
Cable news is mostly opinion - that is true for Fox and CNN and MSNBC and whatever. But 'the news', the actual articles written by the reporters out there covering what is happening are for the most part written by professionals. Professionals working under certain ideals designed to create unbiased reporting. And we have access to multiple writers on every topic. I am generally impressed when I read those articles by how they try to present multiple sides of the story, and how they report even what is detrimental to what may well be their personal opinion.
At the same time, I am not blind to the biases of the various media sources, and no-one, no matter how hard they try, can truly be unbiased. But all one really needs to do is broaden one's scope and read articles from multiple opposing potential biases to get a clearer picture of how the facts can be viewed from different perspectives.
But no, I am officially pushing back on that line. That line is Trump fed and ignorance base paranoia. The media does not 'lie for a living'. These reporters go to extreme lengths to bring us information about the world that is as honest and as unbiased as they can make it. Sometimes they literally risk their lives and put themselves in the middle of extremely hostile situations to make sure we can have that information. And they do not deserve to be painted the way conservatives in this country paint them.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 09-05-2018, 09:55 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostDo you think rhetoric like this (against fellow Christians, and which you've been using frequently) is helpful?
ETA: I've thought now and again about posting on some of these Trump threads, but part of the reason I haven't is the amount of character questioning and "oh, so you worship Trump, do you?" that inevitably follows.
But what have we come to when a call to righteousness, one Christian to another, is met with 'Don't you judge me - I can do whatever I want'? I'm not complaining about anything that is not absolutely clear in Scripture. This is not 'meat offered to idols'. This is adultery, betrayal, lying on a daily basis about issue that affect more than 300,000,000 people. This is about the mental and emotional fitness of the leader of the free world and Christians that will excuse almost anything he does no matter how vile or evil it is.
We have pledged to make Christ Lord. We cannot excuse Trumps behavior and pretend it is all ok because some of the things he's doing might work out and because we don't want Liberals like Hillary Clinton in power. We certainly didn't do that with Bill Clinton, and we did not do it with Obama. Do you suppose that switching the label to GOP makes us any less responsible to speak for what is good and true?
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 09-05-2018, 10:08 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostWhat else is there to say when Christians will not speak out against true evil. I'm sorry I'm ruffling feathers, I'd really rather not be in that position. But I feel I have no choice but to speak out as best I can.
Trump's treatment of Sessions is deplorable - I'm not the only one who has said that.
You're not "speaking out as best you can", Jim - you're capable of far better than this. You're simply thunderfarting rage. And a lot of it is entirely misdirected.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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