Anonymous Op-Ed from the NYT

[NorrinRadd]

Your bias is showing. Here's what you said....



It would have been less inaccurate if you had said "some" conservatives -- I know quite a few conservatives, and only a few of them (online) "think the claims Trump makes about himself are "the real deal," despite all of the evidence to the contrary". None of the conservatives I know IRL think that.

Most of us recognize that, like his predecessor, he's prone to being braggadocious and self aggrandizing, but on a whole 'nuther level.

Trump is so over-the-top about it, it strikes me as at least partially intended to be comical trollery, kind of like the all-seeing, all-knowing, all-everything Maha Rushie.

[NorrinRadd]

For the record, here is the text of the 25th amendment...

Amendment XXV

Presidential Disability and Succession
...
Section 4

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

Ok, so if I'm reading this correctly, Pence and 50% + 1 of the Cabinet draft a letter saying, "Trump is unable to serve due to general poopy-headedness," hands it to Orrin Hatch, and does the ol' Al Haig "I'm in charge here."

Ten minutes later, Trump scribbles out a note saying, "Oh no I'm NOT unable!!!" and then, after taking a moment to Tweet that Pence is the poopy-head, and disloyal to boot, runs over to the Senate and shoves the note into Hatch's... hatch.

At this point Pence and 50% + 1 of the Cabinet politely wait three of the allotted four days, then submit another letter saying, "His protestations notwithstanding, Trump is indeed incapacitated by poopy-headedness."

Congress then dithers and dawdles and delays for the entire allotted time span of 21 days, and ultimately fails to muster the needed 67% of both Houses to hand the job over to Pence.

---------------------

I see nothing in the text of 25A to preclude this. One would *hope* that the parties involved would consider -- in a serious-minded fashion -- the opinions of appropriate medical experts; in the current climate, this is uncertain.

The background of 25A includes the recent memory of the *physical* ailments of FDR late in his Presidency, Ike, and JFK (all of which were mostly concealed from the public until later). Given that, one suspects it *mostly* contemplates a POTUS who is *physically* compromised, but too proud and/or stubborn to admit it. Perhaps 25A should be clarified to further assure that judgments of "inability" are not arbitrary.

Personally, I think it should be amended to require more than a mere 50%+1 of the Cabinet.

[Cow Poke]

Ok, so if I'm reading this correctly, Pence and 50% + 1 of the Cabinet draft a letter saying, "Trump is unable to serve due to general poopy-headedness," hands it to Orrin Hatch, and does the ol' Al Haig "I'm in charge here."

Ten minutes later, Trump scribbles out a note saying, "Oh no I'm NOT unable!!!" and then, after taking a moment to Tweet that Pence is the poopy-head, and disloyal to boot, runs over to the Senate and shoves the note into Hatch's... hatch.

At this point Pence and 50% + 1 of the Cabinet politely wait three of the allotted four days, then submit another letter saying, "His protestations notwithstanding, Trump is indeed incapacitated by poopy-headedness."

Congress then dithers and dawdles and delays for the entire allotted time span of 21 days, and ultimately fails to muster the needed 67% of both Houses to hand the job over to Pence.

---------------------

I see nothing in the text of 25A to preclude this. One would *hope* that the parties involved would consider -- in a serious-minded fashion -- the opinions of appropriate medical experts; in the current climate, this is uncertain.

The background of 25A includes the recent memory of the *physical* ailments of FDR late in his Presidency, Ike, and JFK (all of which were mostly concealed from the public until later). Given that, one suspects it *mostly* contemplates a POTUS who is *physically* compromised, but too proud and/or stubborn to admit it. Perhaps 25A should be clarified to further assure that judgments of "inability" are not arbitrary.

Personally, I think it should be amended to require more than a mere 50%+1 of the Cabinet.

Yeah, but in this poisonous political climate, all that will ever happen is more rancor.

[Cow Poke]

Trump is so over-the-top about it, it strikes me as at least partially intended to be comical trollery, kind of like the all-seeing, all-knowing, all-everything Maha Rushie.

I think that's a lot of it - I think Trump truly enjoys getting the liberals all bent out of shape.

[Cow Poke]

Oh you sensitive snowflake.

That'll be the day, Queen Drama.

[rogue06]

Oh you sensitive snowflake. "Unhinged" has been used frequently by members of the WH according to Bob Woodward and others to describe Trump. It is defined as mentally unbalanced or deranged, which would certainly qualify for a "Twenty-fifth Amendment removal of the president from office. So what are you on about?

It has also been used to describe exactly the way he has been known to conduct business his entire career -- spur of the moment, stream of consciousness conversations, veering off on tangents... And these traits are what many in D.C. find unsettling -- not to mention his rude in-your-face style.

[rogue06]

Trump is so over-the-top about it, it strikes me as at least partially intended to be comical trollery, kind of like the all-seeing, all-knowing, all-everything Maha Rushie.

Had to look that one up.

[Cow Poke]

It has also been used to describe exactly the way he has been known to conduct business his entire career -- spur of the moment, stream of consciousness conversations, veering off on tangents... And these traits are what many in D.C. find unsettling -- not to mention his rude in-your-face style.

This really is about me, isn't it?

[rogue06]

This really is about me, isn't it?

No. Not at all















Well, maybe the last bit.

[Tassman]

It has also been used to describe exactly the way he has been known to conduct business his entire career -- spur of the moment, stream of consciousness conversations, veering off on tangents... And these traits are what many in D.C. find unsettling -- not to mention his rude in-your-face style.

Idiosyncratic personality traits tend to get worse with age to the point, in this instance, that many are questioning Trump’s competence to govern. It is one thing for his businesses to collapse (as indeed they have before) it is another if he drags the country and world down with him, hence the talk of invoking the 26th Amendment.

[Mountain Man]

Idiosyncratic personality traits tend to get worse with age to the point, in this instance, that many [ON THE LEFT WITH AN OBVIOUSLY SELF-SERVING POLITICAL AGENDA] are questioning Trump’s competence to govern.

I added the part you "accidently" left out.

[rogue06]

Idiosyncratic personality traits tend to get worse with age to the point, in this instance, that many are questioning Trump’s competence to govern. It is one thing for his businesses to collapse (as indeed they have before) it is another if he drags the country and world down with him, hence the talk of invoking the 26th Amendment.

And yet he seems to have accomplished most of the things he has set out to do. Go figure.

[carpedm9587]

And yet he seems to have accomplished most of the things he has set out to do. Go figure.

Apparently not even close to "most."

To be fair, it's very hard for a politician to keep all (or even most) of their promises. We don't live in a dictatorship. Most of the time, compromise is required to move forward. I would love to see how this compares to previous presidencies, but I'm not finding that.

[Cow Poke]

Apparently not even close to "most."

To be fair, it's very hard for a politician to keep all (or even most) of their promises. We don't live in a dictatorship. Most of the time, compromise is required to move forward. I would love to see how this compares to previous presidencies, but I'm not finding that.

Wouldn't that be whataboutism?

[carpedm9587]

Wouldn't that be whataboutism?

I don't see how. "Whataboutism" is when someone attempts to divert the discussion from X, or defends/excuses the actions of X, by pointing out Y did the same thing. Comparisons are not necessarily "whataboutism." If Trump claims, "I've done more in my first two years than any other president," the truth of that proposition can only be determined by looking at what other presidents did. That's not "whataboutism." If one wants to evaluate the relative strengths or weaknesses of presidents, it can only be done by comparison. Again, that is not "whataboutism."

THIS is "whataboutism..."

"Trump is a chronic liar!"
"What about Obama?"

THIS is not...

"Trump lies more than any other president!"
"What about Obama?"