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The Denominations Myth

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  • #31
    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    Then pick something out from the translated document as a case in point. Not just Conybeare's arguments.
    Your source depended on Conybeare's arguments, Paul, deceitfully taking material out of context. Scared to read it for yourself? Afraid to find out your case has no foundation? I dare you to read it, and tell me my interpretation of it is baseless.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      Your source depended on Conybeare's arguments, Paul, deceitfully taking material out of context. Scared to read it for yourself? Afraid to find out your case has no foundation? I dare you to read it, and tell me my interpretation of it is baseless.
      Accusations without citations?
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        Accusations without citations?
        How do you think I came across Conybeare, Paul? It was from reading your recommended source three years ago. Why should I go to the trouble of rereading it and posting if you're just going to ignore it like you did the last time?

        I say deceitfully because there is no way one can read Conybeare and come away with the idea that Paulicians were proto-Baptists; one must ignore a whole host of ideas contrary to Baptist beliefs to do so.
        Last edited by One Bad Pig; 09-12-2018, 11:49 AM.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          How do you think I came across Conybeare, Paul? It was from reading your recommended source three years ago. Why should I go to the trouble of rereading it and posting if you're just going to ignore it like you did the last time?

          I say deceitfully because there is no way one can read Conybeare and come away with the idea that Paulicians were proto-Baptists; one must ignore a whole host of ideas contrary to Baptist beliefs to do so.
          You repeated accusations against that group. So I am out of time as of this post. I will respond further here, OK?
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • #35
            According to the "The Key of Truth" they are essentially Roman Catholic in faith and practice. One main thing they have in common with Baptists is what is called "believer's baptism" (page 117). Hope, Repentance, faith then baptism.

            So I too would not consider them Baptist.
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              According to the "The Key of Truth" they are essentially Roman Catholic in faith and practice.
              Um, no. They made a pretense of conforming to the Armenian (not Roman Catholic) Church, but believed quite otherwise in secret.
              One main thing they have in common with Baptists is what is called "believer's baptism" (page 117). Hope, Repentance, faith then baptism.

              So I too would not consider them Baptist.
              They only sort of have even that. The Paulicians believed that people should be baptized at 30, because that's how old Jesus was when he was baptized.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Um, no. They made a pretense of conforming to the Armenian (not Roman Catholic) Church, but believed quite otherwise in secret.
                In other words what they really believed in not in that book.

                They only sort of have even that. The Paulicians believed that people should be baptized at 30, because that's how old Jesus was when he was baptized.
                It is my understanding historically that was known of anabaptists and baptists where also known to only baptize adult believers.
                Last edited by 37818; 09-13-2018, 04:10 PM.
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  In other words what they really believed in not in that book.
                  I have no idea how you manage to conflate what's in the book with typical Roman Catholic belief.
                  It is my understanding historically that was known of anabaptists and baptists where also known to only baptize adult believers.
                  Yes, anabaptists and baptists only baptized adult believers - for wholly different reasons than the Paulicians baptized people at 30.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    I have no idea how you manage to conflate what's in the book with typical Roman Catholic belief.
                    Well, The Key . . . page 100 and 123 for example.
                    Yes, anabaptists and baptists only baptized adult believers - for wholly different reasons than the Paulicians baptized people at 30.
                    What is that difference? The age of 30 was based on about how old Jesus was when He was baptized. But that was the reason for 30. [Jesus was baptized in 28AD (Luke 3:1) As to how old He would have been at that time. Also Luke wrote "about" ωσει. Also a person was counted as 1 year old the day they were born. No year zero in counting age.]
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      Well, The Key . . . page 100 and 123 for example.
                      What is that difference? The age of 30 was based on about how old Jesus was when He was baptized. But that was the reason for 30. [Jesus was baptized in 28AD (Luke 3:1) As to how old He would have been at that time. Also Luke wrote "about" ωσει. Also a person was counted as 1 year old the day they were born. No year zero in counting age.]
                      You're not aware that Jesus was not actually born on 0 AD? Herod the Great, the one who sought to kill the infant Jesus, died in 4 BC, and the infant Jesus could have been around 2 years old during the time Herod gave the command to kill all infants up to two years old, so by 28 AD, Jesus would have been actually 34, maybe 35 years old, which is still "about" 30 years old.
                      The fact that science cannot make any pronouncement about ethical principles has been misinterpreted as indicating that there are no such principles; while in fact the search for truth presupposes ethics. - Karl Popper, 1987

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        Well, The Key . . . page 100 and 123 for example.
                        Would you mind quoting the text, please?
                        What is that difference? The age of 30 was based on about how old Jesus was when He was baptized. But that was the reason for 30. [Jesus was baptized in 28AD (Luke 3:1) As to how old He would have been at that time. Also Luke wrote "about" ωσει. Also a person was counted as 1 year old the day they were born. No year zero in counting age.]
                        Baptists baptize those who profess faith because they're old enough to profess faith. The Paulicians baptized people at 30 because they thought people should be baptized at the age Jesus was baptized. Those are different reasons.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          Conybeare had in his hot little hands an actual Paulician document, written by a Paulician. ...
                          So... "The Paulician Brief"?
                          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                          Beige Federalist.

                          Nationalist Christian.

                          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                          Justice for Matthew Perna!

                          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                            So... "The Paulician Brief"?
                            That's terrible.

                            I approve.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Would you mind quoting the text, please?
                              Page 100, ". . . and didst make them the Catholic Church of the Son of God the Father. . . ."

                              Page 123, "CONSECRATION OF THE FLESH AND BLOOD" And, "Now our Lord Jesus Christ willed to distribute his holy flesh and blood unto disciples and believers." Teaching the damnable heresy of transubstantiation. Misinterpreting the words of Christ, which the lost do. Damnable in that it keeps the lost from the gift of salvation by causing them to trust in doing a work in order to be saved. Unfortunately some Christians misinterpret the words of Christ, too. Salvation not being a mater of works in order to obtain or to keep salvation.

                              Baptists baptize those who profess faith because they're old enough to profess faith. The Paulicians baptized people at 30 because they thought people should be baptized at the age Jesus was baptized. Those are different reasons.
                              The reason for them teaching not baptizing until the age of thirty is not in dispute. But was an argument for adult baptism.
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                                So... "The Paulician Brief"?
                                00000000000sprkdr.gif





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                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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