Botham Shem Jean

[Cow Poke]

Chuck Norris is coming outta retirement?

Him and Trivette and CD. And Alex Cahill will make sure everything goes according to law.

[Cow Poke]

According to video from ABC News, in a sidebar with the judge and attorneys, it was discussed that Guyger had sought employment with the Fort Worth police department, and was denied, and had applied to the DFW Airport Police (unknown whether she was denied), had smoked marijuana, and failed polygraph tests investigating such use, had also failed on the basis of theft from her workplace (TGI Friday), violations of Dallas PD policies (at risk conduct) resulting in Internal Affairs Investigations, chase policy violations, adverse conduct, disciplinary actions...

ETA: (and they keep referring to three social media accounts she had which, apparently, contained some incriminating posts - not sure what that's all about)

I do not know if this information was available to the jury -- usually that's withheld until the sentencing phase. (The purpose of the sidebar is to decide what information would be allowed in testimony)

It would not surprise me in the least if there were a civil suit against the Dallas Police Department for hiring her in the first place, and keeping her employed with such an extensive (at one point, I'm pretty sure they said 400 pages) personnel file.

[Juvenal]

As badly as I feel for the family of the victim, I also feel sympathy for the shooter. It clearly wasn't premeditated murder, it was a stupid split second decision motivated by fear and confusion ...

... and distractions from sexting with her former partner?

I'm figuring folks have the right to choose their sexual partners, but that's an unbelievably unprofessional dynamic in any workspace, and the efforts they both made to delete the messages says they thought so, too.

[Adrift]

... and distractions from sexting with her former partner?

I'm figuring folks have the right to choose their sexual partners, but that's an unbelievably unprofessional dynamic in any workspace, and the efforts they both made to delete the messages says they thought so, too.

It's also incredibly common, but I don't see its relevance to the incident.

[KingsGambit]

According to video from ABC News, in a sidebar with the judge and attorneys, it was discussed that Guyger had sought employment with the Fort Worth police department, and was denied, and had applied to the DFW Airport Police (unknown whether she was denied), had smoked marijuana, and failed polygraph tests investigating such use, had also failed on the basis of theft from her workplace (TGI Friday), violations of Dallas PD policies (at risk conduct) resulting in Internal Affairs Investigations, chase policy violations, adverse conduct, disciplinary actions...

ETA: (and they keep referring to three social media accounts she had which, apparently, contained some incriminating posts - not sure what that's all about)

I do not know if this information was available to the jury -- usually that's withheld until the sentencing phase. (The purpose of the sidebar is to decide what information would be allowed in testimony)

It would not surprise me in the least if there were a civil suit against the Dallas Police Department for hiring her in the first place, and keeping her employed with such an extensive (at one point, I'm pretty sure they said 400 pages) personnel file.

I don't think her failure to be hired by Fort Worth should be relevant. It seems just like an attempt to embarrass her. (Just like how I think it was wrong that somebody from the police department leaked that Botham Shem Jean had marijuana in his apartment. It's 100% irrelevant to the case and just a shady attempt to discredit him.) Whatever she accumulated in her Dallas police file could be more relevant, but given that the incident happened while she was off duty, I don't think the Dallas PD should be held liable. It seems like a money shakedown and I can't go for that.

[Cow Poke]

I don't think her failure to be hired by Fort Worth should be relevant. It seems just like an attempt to embarrass her.

That's exactly why it was being discussed in a pre-trial sidebar. If, indeed, her "failure to be hired" could be shown to be based on her unfitness for service, it would be relevant. It appears it was redacted, because that could not be proved.

(Just like how I think it was wrong that somebody from the police department leaked that Botham Shem Jean had marijuana in his apartment. It's 100% irrelevant to the case and just a shady attempt to discredit him.)

While, of course, the officer in question had also dabbled in marijuana.

Whatever she accumulated in her Dallas police file could be more relevant, but given that the incident happened while she was off duty, I don't think the Dallas PD should be held liable.

That's actually a grey area in most departments. Even though you are "off the clock", you are still considered "on duty" with respect to your conduct while in uniform (which she was) and would be required to represent the department in all aspects.

It seems like a money shakedown and I can't go for that.

I don't know what there would actually be a civil trial. I'm just suggesting that, if there were, the family of the victim might actually have a case.

[Cow Poke]

It's also incredibly common, but I don't see its relevance to the incident.

The supposed relevance to the incident is the allegation that she was preoccupied with the sexting, having actually had sex with her married (to somebody else) colleague just prior to the incident, and her head (allegedly) was elsewhere. To that "partner", she allegedly texted (during the 911 call) that she had "f'd" up and needed him to come "right now".

The prosecution pointed out a number of "missed opportunities" for her to realize she was going to the wrong apartment, including the large red welcome mat at the door.

As I pointed out to KG, the "off duty" status is more "off the clock", as a uniformed officer is, in many departments, considered to be "on duty" while in uniform, and required to conduct themselves as such.

(I'm currently reading through the Dallas Police Department's Policy Manual)

[Teallaura]

...
(I'm currently reading through the Dallas Police Department's Policy Manual)

And I thought my reading list was boring...

[Cow Poke]

And I thought my reading list was boring...

I'm just really curious how she got to be a cop, and how she was allowed to (allegedly) violate so many department policies and still be employed.

[Cow Poke]

I just checked with a friend who is involved with student ministry at Southwestern Theological Seminary in Fort Worth. She is responsible for helping seminary students find jobs while attending Seminary.

It used to be that Dallas and Fort Worth Police Departments were great opportunities for such students, but she says that, in the last few years, they don't even recommend Dallas PD anymore, even though DPD seems desperate to recruit and train over SIX HUNDRED new officers just to "restaff". According to her, morale problems are rampant, and the "risk / reward" is simply abysmal. It appears (though I can't confirm this) that DPD has really lowered their standards in their desperation to recruit officers.

I want to be clear - I'm not trying to pile onto ex-officer Guyger herself - but the criminal justice system in Dallas seems to be almost irreparably broken.

[Adrift]

The supposed relevance to the incident is the allegation that she was preoccupied with the sexting, having actually had sex with her married (to somebody else) colleague just prior to the incident, and her head (allegedly) was elsewhere. To that "partner", she allegedly texted (during the 911 call) that she had "f'd" up and needed him to come "right now".

The prosecution pointed out a number of "missed opportunities" for her to realize she was going to the wrong apartment, including the large red welcome mat at the door.

As I pointed out to KG, the "off duty" status is more "off the clock", as a uniformed officer is, in many departments, considered to be "on duty" while in uniform, and required to conduct themselves as such.

(I'm currently reading through the Dallas Police Department's Policy Manual)

I'm aware of all of these details. Maybe I'm dense, but I'm still missing the relevance. As far as I know the relationship wasn't new, and people text other people (including their sexual partners) as they're walking through (what they think is) their apartment door all of the time. I'm not saying this excuses her, I'm just saying I don't understand the relevancy. Also, the bit she texted after she shot Jean was while she was on the line with responders, and seems in line with what someone might text to someone they trust who they think might be able to help them in such an incident. Being an ex-partner and someone she's intimate with seems to be in line with that.

[Cow Poke]

I'm aware of all of these details. Maybe I'm dense, but I'm still missing the relevance. As far as I know the relationship wasn't new, and people text other people (including their sexual partners) as they're walking through (what they think is) their apartment door all of the time. I'm not saying this excuses her, I'm just saying I don't understand the relevancy. Also, the bit she texted after she shot Jean was while she was on the line with responders, and seems in line with what someone might text to someone they trust who they think might be able to help them in such an incident. Being an ex-partner and someone she's intimate with seems to be in line with that.

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[Cow Poke]

So, this just in from USA Today...



It is possible that some or much of the information disqualified in pretrial sidebar might be available to the jury for the sentencing phase. (It's not unusual for the defense to "stipulate" to certain aspects in order to keep the jury from hearing the extended description)

It's worth noting, however, that the prosecutors went along with the possibility of a 2 year "sudden passion" provision.

[Cow Poke]

So, yes, the Jury is being allowed to see and know things they were prevented from seeing and knowing during the trial...

Amber Guyger sentencing resumes after murder conviction in death of Botham Jean

Jurors, who are deciding Guyger's punishment, were shown three Pinterest posts that Guyger had saved to her account and commented on. They included the picture of a military sniper with text that read: "Stay low, go fast; kill first, die last; one shot, one kill; no luck, all skill."

In another Pinterest post, Guyger commented under a picture of a Minion from the movie "Despicable Me": "People are so ungrateful. No one ever thanks me for having the patience not to kill them," the comment read.

Does anybody really think this kind of person deserves to be a police officer?

[Adrift]

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Now that sounds like relevant information.