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Botham Shem Jean

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  • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
    TBH, I'm seeing this more as Criminally Negligent Homicide instead of Manslaughter
    I'm inclined to agree, the more I hear about it.

    because it appears from the facts I've seen to have been a tragic though preventable mistake. She was negligent in determining whether she was in the correct apartment, and negligent on determining who was in her apartment, and failed to restrain her impulse to shoot rather quickly...
    The defense, of course, is going to insist that she "happened on the scene of a crime", in her own mind, and responded accordingly.

    In my limited experience (I've served as a juror on two criminal trials, one of which was a manslaughter case) the D.A. often will bring different levels of charges that a jury can select from. And IIRC, in the manslaughter case for example, there were levels of charges we (the jury) could have selected from: Manslaughter, and Criminally negligent homicide. (We actually found him not guilty for reason of self-defense.)
    In high profile cases the DA will often push the charge he/she is confident they can win, because going after a 'tougher' charge and losing is both an embarrassment to their own record (sadly) and means the accused walks free. Politics is all over this case.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      Criminally negligient homicide is still 5 years, and you'll never work as a cop again. That would be satisfactory to me.
      2 years is the max for criminally negligent homicide in Texas, the range is 180 days - 2 years...and it's in a State Jail, not a prison (which there's not a lot of difference, I've been in both) Manslaughter is in Prison and has a 2 - 20 year range. And yes, she would never again be allowed to carry a gun much less be a police officer.
      "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

      "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
        2 years is the max for criminally negligent homicide in Texas, the range is 180 days - 2 years...and it's in a State Jail, not a prison (which there's not a lot of difference, I've been in both) Manslaughter is in Prison and has a 2 - 20 year range. And yes, she would never again be allowed to carry a gun much less be a police officer.
        That's still fine, my own country has very lenient punishments even for manslaughter, unless it was murder in which case its a twenty year sentence (subject to lengthening if the person is not judged fit for society).

        Comment


        • Any place one can find information about how the trial is going?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            Any place one can find information about how the trial is going?
            It'll be awhile before it gets to court what with all the pretrial posturing and maneuvering still taking place. They're still fighting over releasing the 9/11 call and autopsy report.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              It'll be awhile before it gets to court what with all the pretrial posturing and maneuvering still taking place. They're still fighting over releasing the 9/11 call and autopsy report.
              Any good reason why neither are being released? The police was pretty dead set on defending that officer by releasing their finding of a few grams of weed, and had no qualms at all releasing that to journalists the first chance they got.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                Any good reason why neither are being released? The police was pretty dead set on defending that officer by releasing their finding of a few grams of weed, and had no qualms at all releasing that to journalists the first chance they got.
                It's hard to have a fair trial when all the evidence has been released to the public.
                "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  Any good reason why neither are being released? The police was pretty dead set on defending that officer by releasing their finding of a few grams of weed, and had no qualms at all releasing that to journalists the first chance they got.
                  As the linked to article noted

                  Some police departments release recordings of 911 calls soon after they are made. The Dallas County district attorney's office in recent years has sought to prevent their release, saying it would compromise investigations.


                  So it does not seem anything particular or specific to this case.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    As the linked to article noted

                    Some police departments release recordings of 911 calls soon after they are made. The Dallas County district attorney's office in recent years has sought to prevent their release, saying it would compromise investigations.


                    So it does not seem anything particular or specific to this case.
                    Will they eventually be released?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      Will they eventually be released?
                      Not sure if anybody caught this part, but on September 11, the district attorney's office executed a search warrant seizing electronic door locks from both Jean's and Guyger's apartments. It is suspected that Guyger went home before going to Jean's apartment, which doesn't help Guyger's case at all.

                      Just last week, according to the Dallas Morning News, Jean's family filed a federal suit against Guyger and the city of Dallas claiming Guyger used excessive force and violated Jean's constitutional and civil rights. The suit also states the police chief, City Council and city manager failed to implement and enforce measures for the Police Department "that respected Jean's constitutional rights."

                      I suspect 911 tapes and other evidence will be withheld because it is "an ongoing investigation", particularly since there is now a federal law suit.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                        Will they eventually be released?
                        Before the trial?

                        During the trial?


                        So we will eventually have access.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Before the trial?

                          During the trial?


                          So we will eventually have access.
                          That makes sense. I'm just eager to know of further developments.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            That makes sense. I'm just eager to know of further developments.
                            Well, here ya go....

                            Dallas police officer who shot man in his own apartment indicted on murder charge

                            (CNN)A police officer who claimed she killed a Dallas man in his own apartment in the mistaken belief that he was in her home was indicted Friday on a murder charge, authorities said.
                            The indictment of Amber Guyger comes more than two months after she was arrested in the shooting death of Botham Shem Jean at the Dallas apartment complex where both lived -- a killing that sparked days of protests.
                            Guyger was arrested after the September shooting and charged with manslaughter by the Texas Rangers, the lead investigative agency, Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson said at a news conference.
                            When asked why the grand jury indicted Guyger on the more serious offense of murder, Johnson replied, "We presented the evidence and we explained the law."

                            Johnson said murder constitutes someone "intentionally and knowingly" committing a crime, whereas manslaughter involves "recklessly doing something."
                            "At the moment of the shooting it was a knowing ... offense," Johnson said.
                            The court records Friday showed both a manslaughter and murder charge entered in Guyger's file, but a clerk of court clerk confirmed that the murder charge is the one prosecutors are moving forward on.
                            Robert Rogers, Guyger's attorney, was disappointed but not surprised by the indictment, given what he called an "outpouring of vindictive emotion" in a statement late Friday.
                            "This is a terrible tragedy that resulted from a true mistake," he said. "We are confident that a dispassionate jury in a fair forum will objectively apply the law to the facts and find Amber not guilty."
                            Guyger had already been arrested again and released on bond, Johnson said at the news conference.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • My concern is that the heavier charge of murder may be more difficult to prove. Its also possible that they're hoping she'll "plead down" to manslaughter.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                My concern is that the heavier charge of murder may be more difficult to prove. Its also possible that they're hoping she'll "plead down" to manslaughter.
                                That's what I think too. If they go after murder, she is likely to get a not guilty, whereas if they go after manslaughter I think they could get a conviction.

                                Comment

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