Botham Shem Jean

[Leonhard]

I have seen nothing so far to excuse this officer's actions. Believe me, I'm looking.

I mean its like I'm just against cops. If she went in there *for a reason* and not simply by accident. There was a good reason to go in there... I don't know if a cop can do that without permission. But I doubt anyone was calling help from within that house, or anything like that. But if it was something like that, then the shooting would make sense. Then it would be a tragic confrontation.

[Cow Poke]

I mean its like I'm just against cops. If she went in there *for a reason* and not simply by accident. There was a good reason to go in there... I don't know if a cop can do that without permission.

Without the owner's permission or a warrant, they'd have to be pursuing a felon - otherwise, no.

But I doubt anyone was calling help from within that house, or anything like that. But if it was something like that, then the shooting would make sense. Then it would be a tragic confrontation.

I think this is a very tragic unjustifiable shooting - still looking for the "but".

[Leonhard]

I mean its like I'm just against cops.

Should have been "I mean its not like I'm just against cops."

I tend to skip words a lot.

[KingsGambit]

Unions play an important role for sure in protecting the rights of the accused, but I think that directly going to the media and making the case (and before the facts are even established) is directly counterproductive, especially in an environment where right or wrong, many people outright mistrust the police.

I sort of have a love hate relationship with my own union. They step in when upper management tries to give us unsafe directives or ignores the contract, but if I told you some of the things they've gotten people their jobs back for doing just in my own office alone...

The news story going around about the marijuana in the guy's apartment seems like a fairly transparent attempt to blame the victim. The fact is that while marijuana is illegal in Texas, it's not a capital offense, so I have little time for that talking point.

[Cow Poke]

The news story going around about the marijuana in the guy's apartment seems like a fairly transparent attempt to blame the victim. The fact is that while marijuana is illegal in Texas, it's not a capital offense, so I have little time for that talking point.

Not only that, it had nothing whatsoever to do with the officer entering the apartment - no warrant, no probable cause... nothing.

It's just a smoke screen. (see what I did there? )

[Cow Poke]

OK, this is interesting --- according to CNN, the officer said she parked on the wrong floor, went to the wrong apartment, and the door was partly opened.... (1 minute 02 in the video) If that's true, then the whole discussion about keys or whatever is mute. HOWEVER, it would raise your suspicion if you came home and "your" door was partly opened. I don't know about the truth of that part.

In that same video, supposedly, the neighbors heard a pounding on the door, and her saying "open up" (1 minute 20) -- if the door was ajar, why would she need to yell that?

It appears that a search warrant AFTER THE FACT found the marijuana -- again, absolutely nothing to do with the shooting.

The whole things is starting to get even stinkier, I think.

[One Bad Pig]

If that's true, then the whole discussion about keys or whatever is mute.

[Cow Poke]

yeah, um..... I got nothing.

[Leonhard]

It appears that a search warrant AFTER THE FACT found the marijuana -- again, absolutely nothing to do with the shooting.

I don't know why that was publicised as it has absolutely nothing to do with the shooting. That sounds more to me like the local police department trying to cast dirt on the victim.

[Cow Poke]

I don't know why that was publicised as it has absolutely nothing to do with the shooting. That sounds more to me like the local police department trying to cast dirt on the victim.

EGGzackly - and I'm wondering why the Texas Rangers - who are allegedly in charge of this case - would allow that to happen.

[Leonhard]

EGGzackly - and I'm wondering why the Texas Rangers - who are allegedly in charge of this case - would allow that to happen.

I'm probably just going to say stuff here you agree with.

The police are given a lot of leeway. They need this to carry out their duties. If they had to abide by all the rules and restrictions an ordinary civilian would, they could not stop criminals. Even in court rooms when it comes to an officer by accident, or not-so-accident, killing someone in line of duty, they're given leeway and the benefit of the doubt.

And all that is good. It can't be otherwise, or you wouldn't have a police force.

However, one way to very quickly erode public trust in the police is basically just the police abusing those rights and privileges. Here they got a search warrant for that house, likely for good reasons, to gather evidence of what truly happened. But doing so they also gather sensitive information about the victim. They have the power to control that information. Them letting this particular factoid out looks very much like they're trying to protect their reputation. Smoking pot is illegal, and is very bad in peoples mind, I guess is their thinking... I don't know. Or perhaps preempting a court defence that would draw similarities to other cases, where a police shot a person on weed who wasn't quick enough to follow instructions... though such a parallel would be hard to make, seeing as the officer wasn't there legally in the first place, and shot someone in their own home without a warrant.

I have no idea what they were thinking to do that. I mean something like that, the police abusing their rights to control what information gets slipped to the press to make themselves look better, would make me lose a lot of trust in them. Doubtless others.

It would not make them look good to me at all.

[Leonhard]

In fact now I'm wondering if they're tampering with the evidence and covering traces, if they're willing to cast dirt on the victim. I mean we're trusting these people to do a fair investigation, right? Yet why should we if they're not acting in good faith?

This case just stinks.

[Cow Poke]

In fact now I'm wondering if they're tampering with the evidence and covering traces, if they're willing to cast dirt on the victim. I mean we're trusting these people to do a fair investigation, right? Yet why should we if they're not acting in good faith?

This case just stinks.

Yeah, I don't know who's driving this - the Dallas PD seemed fine with turning it over to the Texas Rangers for investigation. That's usually a sign that we know this stinks, or has the potential to look like (or smell like) that.

I think when the police union got involved - and I haven't checked yet, but they may be supplying this officer's attorney - it started getting complicated and confusing.

[Leonhard]

Yeah, I don't know who's driving this - the Dallas PD seemed fine with turning it over to the Texas Rangers for investigation. That's usually a sign that we know this stinks, or has the potential to look like (or smell like) that.

I think when the police union got involved - and I haven't checked yet, but they may be supplying this officer's attorney - it started getting complicated and confusing.

Yeah, and anyway I've said my peace. Without more to go on I don't think its healthy for me to dwell on this. Its a weird and rather atypical case. And I'll leave it to the courts to sift out the evidence and contradictory statements from witnesses and the accused.

[Littlejoe]

I don't know why that was publicised as it has absolutely nothing to do with the shooting. That sounds more to me like the local police department trying to cast dirt on the victim.

It was part of the court filing FWIU, and since the media is very interested in the story it was picked up on and reported. Why it was a relevant part of the court filings IDK.