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Thread: Botham Shem Jean

  1. #221
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    I thought it strange that the prosecution paraded a bunch of people to the stand to tell the court how they had been on the wrong floor and tried to go into (or managed to go into) the wrong apt. One man even talking about seeing a purse on the kitchen counter and thinking "...I guess my roommate has a women here...". Seeming their only point in this was to basically ask.."but you didn't shoot and kill them right?"
    Last edited by Littlejoe; 09-30-2019 at 01:02 PM.
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

  2. Amen KingsGambit, Adrift amen'd this post.
  3. #222
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Eh, you're doing a lot of "It was a mistake anyone could have made ... it would have been perfectly legal and just if it was her own home" kind of explanation. What does it matter if it would have been legal if it was a robber in her own home.

    It wasn't a robber in her own her own. She was trespassing on someone else's home, and killed them.
    The difference is intent - you're making a murder case where what facts we have lean manslaughter.

    IF it was accidental as alleged, no trespass took place - again, intent matters.

    IF manslaughter, then the question of why ANY officer should be allowed to opt in to that much overtime arises. Assuming she correctly believed she could perform her duties properly over that stretch, she's still up way past bedtime by the time she arrives home (even assuming world's fastest morning female and driving straight home makes it 16 hours - 16 1/2 to 17 being more likely) she's probably not able to perform her duties - but still required to carry a weapon. Yeah, THAT policy needs a serious review.

    Still if, but the overtime issue may explain the 'throwing her under the bus' - maybe.



    I will say this, if you think she made a rash decision, you brand yourself a hypocrite by judging her rashly.

    Or we could wait until the investigation provides more evidence.

  4. #223
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    When police officers interact with subjects under arrest in the jail, there is a locker for them to place their firearms before entering "detention" to keep from giving prisoners access to guns.

    Police in the US are considered "on duty" 24 hours per day, and when in uniform, most (commissioned) officers are required to be armed.
    In Alabama, on call officers are also required to be armed.

  5. #224
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Has happened to me and I don't drink. Has happened to me in reverse, and I still don't drink.

    Thank God it was a female dorm.
    Which goes to show that everyone reacts/handles/succumbs differently to situations. She had come off of a 13 hour shift. LEO's I know tell me that you're often totally spent at the end of that kind of shift. Dallas PD has lost a bunch of officers and are chronically short staffed (making this a "normal" shift for most officer in DPD). Meaning they respond to a high number of calls a day. Not to excuse this but...still not sure it's more that a tragic, horrible, totally preventable accident.
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

  6. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  7. #225
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    The difference is intent - you're making a murder case where what facts we have lean manslaughter.

    IF it was accidental as alleged, no trespass took place - again, intent matters.

    IF manslaughter, then the question of why ANY officer should be allowed to opt in to that much overtime arises. Assuming she correctly believed she could perform her duties properly over that stretch, she's still up way past bedtime by the time she arrives home (even assuming world's fastest morning female and driving straight home makes it 16 hours - 16 1/2 to 17 being more likely) she's probably not able to perform her duties - but still required to carry a weapon. Yeah, THAT policy needs a serious review.

    Still if, but the overtime issue may explain the 'throwing her under the bus' - maybe.



    I will say this, if you think she made a rash decision, you brand yourself a hypocrite by judging her rashly.

    Or we could wait until the investigation provides more evidence.
    We appear to be in the final days (hours?) of the actual trial, so whatever evidence there is should be on full display soon.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  8. #226
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    There's just something about a cop gunning down a person, within the sanctity of that persons home, that even if that person was defending themselves it could be brushed off with 'Yeah well you were mistaken about what home you were in right? You thought it was a robber in *your* home, right?'. That just doesn't seem like justice to me, even if it could be drawn up as accidental.

    If its purely accidental, then its criminally accidental.
    N.O.

    'Pure' or genuine accidents are NEVER criminal.

    But that is irrelevant to her own story - the problem is that shooting was first out of her bag when all she saw was a figure moving. No claim at all of threat other than the union's claim of failure to comply.

    As described in the media, this wouldn't have been justified even in her own apartment. "Moving" isn't "advancing" or "reaching for a weapon" - no threat means probably no justification.

    PROBABLY.

    We simply don't know enough yet.

  9. #227
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    We appear to be in the final days (hours?) of the actual trial, so whatever evidence there is should be on full display soon.
    Cool.

  10. #228
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    THAT could be. If that were the case, that would be acceptable police procedure given the circumstances of finding somebody in an apartment you believed to be your own home. That, however, takes us back to - how did she make that error? Was she under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

    (Do we know how long she lived at this apartment?)


    Why are you looking for zebra when the horse is standing there, tugging on your sleeve?

    And was it 13 or 15?

  11. #229
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    TBH, I'm seeing this more as Criminally Negligent Homicide instead of Manslaughter because it appears from the facts I've seen to have been a tragic though preventable mistake. She was negligent in determining whether she was in the correct apartment, and negligent on determining who was in her apartment, and failed to restrain her impulse to shoot rather quickly...

    In my limited experience (I've served as a juror on two criminal trials, one of which was a manslaughter case) the D.A. often will bring different levels of charges that a jury can select from. And IIRC, in the manslaughter case for example, there were levels of charges we (the jury) could have selected from: Manslaughter, and Criminally negligent homicide. (We actually found him not guilty for reason of self-defense.)
    *emphasis mine

    This is the problematic one. I don't think you can make a case for negligence in simply going in the wrong apartment.

  12. #230
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    I didn't realize how old this thread was...

  13. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.

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