Page 43 of 45 FirstFirst ... 334142434445 LastLast
Results 421 to 430 of 448

Thread: Botham Shem Jean

  1. #421
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Triangle
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    10,665
    Amen (Given)
    1766
    Amen (Received)
    4676
    In a series of weird coincidences... I came across a well written series of academic articles from a homeschooling scientist who's in a Christian parenting group I'm in. He explains "critical race theory" from a Christian perspective. He rejects it but without saying "we're all one in Christ so race doesn't exist and isn't a problem". And he's Indian so one can't just play the race card against him.

    Turns out this guy is involved at a church that meets just down the road from me. And turns out the church's pastor is actually the head of the Southern Baptist Convention. I didn't know their head was even local :oops:

    Interesting stuff, though it's written at kind of a high level:

    https://shenviapologetics.com/intro-to-critical-theory/
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  2. #422
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    invalid value
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,360
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    401
    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    No, that may be YOUR point, but not "the point". What spooky nonsense was on display in the courtroom, ff?
    I appreciate that religious language seems normal to you, but I think it tends to obscure what is really happening. Jean’s religious theory of forgiveness is that he is a forgiven (by God) sinner who owes forgiveness to someone who sins against him. He has a debt to repay, a debt he can never fully repay.

    A purer theory would be that he forgives because he knows Guyger is fallible, as he is, and, he wants to put the tragedy behind him. And the need and capacity to forgive flows directly from him.

    Other points taken unopposed.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  3. #423
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    56,548
    Amen (Given)
    12287
    Amen (Received)
    26291
    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    I appreciate that religious language seems normal to you,
    Well, I'm not a snowflake, so I don't freak at language.

    but I think it tends to obscure what is really happening. Jean’s religious theory of forgiveness is that he is a forgiven (by God) sinner who owes forgiveness to someone who sins against him. He has a debt to repay, a debt he can never fully repay.
    And that's a bad thing, when the outcome is love, forgiveness, mercy and healing? What kind of screwd-up world do you live in?

    A purer theory would be that he forgives because he knows Guyger is fallible, as he is,
    He actually expressed that - perhaps you're just unfamiliar with the language.

    and, he wants to put the tragedy behind him.
    He said that, too, kinda paraphrasing the old "when you forgive, you set a prisoner free, then discover that prisoner was you" principle.

    And the need and capacity to forgive flows directly from him.
    Actually, he's expressing that the forgiveness comes from the Grace of God - you really outta Google more of this, because it's out there.

    Other points taken unopposed.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  4. #424
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Denmark - Jutland
    Faith
    Catholic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,601
    Amen (Given)
    981
    Amen (Received)
    2986
    I believe it was a very touching moment. It was also appropriate that it happened after the sentencing had been handed out. Almost as if God Himself decided to weigh in on the case. The outrage from black people is one I will listen to, and not judge, I don't believe it's my place to arbitrate that. I just think that this closure to the trial was perfect.


  5. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  6. #425
    radical strawberry
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Humanist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,502
    Amen (Given)
    472
    Amen (Received)
    1040
    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I'm actually a little surprised that her incredible act of compassion in what had been such a volatile environment would be attacked as "openly violating the first amendment with cameras rolling...."
    You're not a lawyer, but I bet you know a few who'd be willing to show you how your reading doesn't line up with rulings handed down from the Supreme Court on widely known issues from school prayer to displays of the ten commandments.

    Try to remember that as a Christian preacher, you're not the person I'm turning to to judge this incident fairly, after setting aside your religious biases. And that's just as true of your reading of the constitution.

    And try to remember that not everyone you meet is a Christian, or wants to be, or is under any more obligation to be fond of your faith than you have to be fond of the faith of others. Keep in mind there are a number of us who have reason to be leery of your faith, good people who've suffered at the hands of Christians for no other reason than their lack of a similar faith, yet, like me, still manage to look beyond that.

    I have said many times that if your faith works for you, I'm good with that. You have never returned the sentiment. The bias is yours and yours alone.

    The issue has caught other eyes than mine.

    Amber Guyger’s Judge Gave Her a Bible and a Hug. Did That Cross a Line?

    Some saw the striking moment between a black female judge and a white former officer as an extraordinary example of humanity; others have criticized it as inappropriate, biased and potentially unconstitutional.

    The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a national group that fights to defend the separation of church and state, filed a complaint with the Texas Commission on Judicial Conduct, arguing that the judge’s “proselytizing” amounted to an ethics violation. “Compassion,” the group wrote in their complaint, “crossed the line into coercion.”

    And it's most interesting to note that this was all set in motion by the extraordinary act of the brother of the murdered victim exercising his own 'freedom of speech' to pour out love and forgiveness and healing on his brother's murderer.
    Freedom of speech is regularly and legally curtailed by job requirements, from opinions about the president expressed while in uniform to creationist beliefs from a teacher in a science classroom. The same rules do not apply to students and their teachers, service members and civilians, or citizens and their judges.

  7. #426
    radical strawberry
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Humanist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,502
    Amen (Given)
    472
    Amen (Received)
    1040
    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I feel really disheartened this morning.
    I feel ya, KG.

    From the story I linked above in the post to CP.

    Christopher Scott, a black man who spent nearly 13 years in prison for a murder he did not commit, said he had never received a hug from a judge in all his experiences with the criminal justice system, including at his exoneration hearing in Dallas County in 2009.

    “I’ve watched all of the exonerations that happened in Dallas County — I’ve never seen it,” said Mr. Scott, who went on to found an organization that investigates other wrongful crimes. “We don’t get handshakes, we don’t get hugs, we don’t get Bibles. They just say, ‘We’re sorry for what happened to you and you are a free man to go.’”

    And for balance, mostly because it's important, but also to point out its absence from the fringe media bleeding virtual ink on everyone's bias but their own ...

    Ty Toney, who followed the trial from his home in Las Vegas, was among those who viewed the judge’s actions as commendable. “I watch a lot of these trials because it’s kind of personal to me,” said Mr. Toney, 40, who said his brother was killed in a police shooting in California in the 1990s.

    “To take the effort and go out there and console somebody, that touched me,” said Mr. Toney, a practicing Lutheran. “People can be mad at the sentencing, the time she was given, but that’s different than showing compassion for another human.”

  8. #427
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    In my house.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    15,375
    Amen (Given)
    9678
    Amen (Received)
    5674
    Um, it's one thing to try to be understanding with those who struggle with forgiveness, no matter what trauma or reason causes their struggle. But the call to forgive as we have been forgiven doesn't change because of history or race. Forgiveness is rarely easy - but the example is the One Who forgave those who tortured Him to death while they were doing it.

    The grace and mercy we are shown is the grace and mercy we are to show - whether we like it or not. We do no one any favors when we refuse to acknowledge that they, too, have our same burden - even when it seems harder on them to us.

    But who says they have to bear it alone - wasn't the light yoke part of what we gain at the cross?

    Sympathize, by all means, but be careful not to infantilize at the same time. God is able - no matter how hard it seems.

  9. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  10. #428
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    56,548
    Amen (Given)
    12287
    Amen (Received)
    26291
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    You're not a lawyer, but I bet you know a few who'd be willing to show you how your reading doesn't line up with rulings handed down from the Supreme Court on widely known issues from school prayer to displays of the ten commandments.
    Find me 3 lawyers and I'll show you 4 opinions.

    Try to remember that as a Christian preacher, you're not the person I'm turning to to judge this incident fairly, after setting aside your religious biases. And that's just as true of your reading of the constitution.
    I don't have to "try to remember" anything.... I'm well aware that you have your own bias, which obviously was pretty strong given that you came up with this goofy notion that she reluctantly allowed him to hug her. It's not often that I find you post something that shows your bias so strong that you grossly misconstrue an action such as Guyger's quite emotional hugging of Brandt, not just once but FOUR TIMES.

    And, yes, I'm well aware that the Freedom From Religion folks would get their panties in a bunch over something like what happened in court that day.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  11. Amen Adrift, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  12. #429
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    56,548
    Amen (Given)
    12287
    Amen (Received)
    26291
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    Freedom of speech is regularly and legally curtailed by job requirements, from opinions about the president expressed while in uniform to creationist beliefs from a teacher in a science classroom. The same rules do not apply to students and their teachers, service members and civilians, or citizens and their judges.
    The judge did not address the cameras or the court in general. The trial was officially over and she expressed her own PERSONAL feelings both to the family of the deceased, and to the accused/convicted. None of the persons to whom she spoke objected in any way to her personal interaction with them. In fact, Guyger's own legal team stood right by, moved to tears, and never offered even the slightest objection. Courtroom law enforcement also stood by very respectfully, recognizing this was a truly special moment - not something to criticize or condemn.

    I'd bet that there's not a single person who was in that courtroom who thought anything "wrong" happened regarding the judge's PERSONAL interactions with both sides. As I stated before, the only thing I would have changed would have been that the Judge remove her robe before presenting the Bible.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  13. Amen Teallaura, Adrift, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  14. #430
    radical strawberry
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Humanist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,502
    Amen (Given)
    472
    Amen (Received)
    1040
    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Find me 3 lawyers and I'll show you 4 opinions.
    Find me one Supreme Court opinion that agrees with yours on your own, then.

    I don't have to "try to remember" anything.... I'm well aware that you have your own bias ...
    A lack of bias is not a bias, CP, no matter how much you need it to be in order to justify hurling the stones back, in concert with some oddball notion endlessly repeated on fringe media that anyone else's bias can justify a counter with even more bias of one's own. Of course you're not going to see a problem with a courtroom turning into a church service, led by the judge.

    So long as it's Christian, and not a gay wedding.

    Come to think of it, neither would I, so long as it was.

    Oh, and ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Botham's brother said "I don't even want you go go to jail - I just want you to come to Christ". Then he asked the judge if he could hug Guyger --- at first, it appeared she wouldn't allow it, but he asked several times, "Please, please?" She allowed it, they hugged quite a while, and that's when the mood dramatically changed to calm, and even the Judge came down from the bench to talk to Guyger, hug her, give her a Bible...

    I've never seen anything like this in a courtroom in my life.
    I never watched the video, and misread this the first time, leaving a false impression.

    ... at first, it appeared she wouldn't allow it, but he asked several times, "Please, please?" She allowed it, they hugged quite a while, and that's when the mood dramatically changed to calm ...

    "She allowed it, they hugged quite a while" created an ambiguous antecedent, but not so much it wasn't clear when I looked again, just now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •