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Political Correctness beats Science.

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  • Political Correctness beats Science.

    Now some liberal feminists have decided that Political Correctness is more important than science and have censored a mathematical paper they don't like.



    A Mathematician Says Activists Made His Paper Disappear Because Its Findings Offended Them
    At behest of a feminist professor, an academic journal's board reportedly threatened to "harass the journal until it died."

    Theodore Hill, a retired professor of mathematics at Georgia Tech, claims that activists successfully pressured the New York Journal of Mathematics to delete an article he had written for the academic journal because it considered a politically incorrect subject: the achievement gap between men and women at very high levels of human intelligence.

    The Greater Male Variability Hypothesis, first proposed by Charles Darwin, suggests that there are more men than women at both the bottom and the very top of the distribution for intelligence scores. More men than woman are Nobel Prize winners and chess grand champions, and more men than women are homeless, unemployed, and in prison. Men as a group express greater variability in aptitude and ability. This difference, of course, need not be innate—it could be the case that social custom and pressure has punished women for falling anywhere outside the norm.

    Writing for Quillette, Hill says that he and a co-author came up with a theoretical model that would help explain the gap, then attempted to publish a paper about their work in Mathematical Intelligencer. The paper was accepted, though the topic is controversial: Larry Summers resigned as president of Harvard University in part due to criticism he received for broaching the subject of variability at an academic conference.

    As might have been anticipated, the paper was poorly received by feminist scholars. Hill's co-author, Sergei Tabachnikov, faced strident opposition at Penn State, where he is employed as a professor of mathematics. According to Hill:
    At a faculty meeting the week before, the Department Head had explained that sometimes values such as academic freedom and free speech come into conflict with other values to which Penn State was committed. A female colleague had then instructed Sergei that he needed to admit and fight bias, adding that the belief that "women have a lesser chance to succeed in mathematics at the very top end is bias." Sergei said he had spent "endless hours" talking to people who explained that the paper was "bad and harmful" and tried to convince him to "withdraw my name to restore peace at the department and to avoid losing whatever political capital I may still have."...

    The National Science Foundation eventually wrote to Tabachnikov asking him remove from the paper any acknowledgment that the NSF had helped to fund the research. This was done, according to Hill, after two Penn State academics—the chair of the climate and diversity committee, and the associate head for diversity and equity—had warned the NSF that the paper promotes ideas "detrimental to the advancement of women in science, and at odds with the values of the NSF."

    Mathematical Intelligencer rescinded its acceptance of the paper. According to its editor-in-chief, publishing Hill and Tabachnikov's work would create a "very real possibility that the right-wing media may pick this up and hype it internationally." In his Quillette piece, Hill claims that a University of Chicago mathematics professor, Amie Wilkinson, lobbied the journal to abandon its plans to publish the piece.

    Some time later, an editor at another publication, the New York Journal of Mathematics, wrote to Hill and offered to publish the paper. Hill accepted, and the article was published. But then:

    Three days later, however, the paper had vanished. And a few days after that, a completely different paper by different authors appeared at exactly the same page of the same volume (NYJM Volume 23, p 1641+) where mine had once been. As it turned out, Amie Wilkinson is married to Benson Farb, a member of the NYJM editorial board. Upon discovering that the journal had published my paper, Professor Farb had written a furious email to [NYJM Editor-in-Chief Mark Steinberger] demanding that it be deleted at once. …
    Unaware of any of this, I wrote to Steinberger on November 14, to find out what had happened. I pointed out that if the deletion were permanent, it would leave me in an impossible position. I would not be able to republish anywhere else because I would be unable to sign a copyright form declaring that it had not already been published elsewhere. Steinberger replied later that day. Half his board, he explained unhappily, had told him that unless he pulled the article, they would all resign and "harass the journal" he had founded 25 years earlier "until it died." Faced with the loss of his own scientific legacy, he had capitulated. "A publication in a dead journal," he offered, "wouldn't help you."


    https://reason.com/blog/2018/09/10/m...llette-pc-left


  • #2
    Does political correctness include climate change, because the current conservative administration did something similar to the EPA, pretty much barring them from talking about climate change when abroad. Or the ban list they sent to the CDC about phrases they couldn't use anymore like 'evidence-based'.

    At any rate I agree this report shouldn't have been taken down for being against equality. It could simply have been taken down for being poor science. From his own mouth there wasn't any evidence being discussed in it, nor did he try to argue that the variability also applied to human intelligence (a controversial topic, meaning no one knows yet). He apparently, his own words, created an intuitive model and showed how it could explain the gender difference in hiring. Though, since we don't have access to it, we can't see the content.

    I also have a hard time finding out what this all looks like from the case of those who had it taken down. So its his word currently, against no ones. And he sounds a bit like he's having sour grapes. He's arguing that Damore of Google infamy was taken down simply for suggesting binary distinctions, whereas Damore was actually openly within Google challenging their inclusive hiring practice as damaging to the company, and was therefore fired for violating internal policy.

    If he was taken down simply because of equality concern, I don't think that's fair, but I also don't think that's the whole story to this. Though, without having access to the article, its impossible to tell whether it was simply an old man's misogeny dressed up in equations.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      Does political correctness include climate change, because the current conservative administration did something similar to the EPA, pretty much barring them from talking about climate change when abroad. Or the ban list they sent to the CDC about phrases they couldn't use anymore like 'evidence-based'.
      Terrible analogy, Leonhard. If this were an article questioning climate change, it would never have been accepted in the first place.
      At any rate I agree this report shouldn't have been taken down for being against equality. It could simply have been taken down for being poor science. From his own mouth there wasn't any evidence being discussed in it, nor did he try to argue that the variability also applied to human intelligence (a controversial topic, meaning no one knows yet). He apparently, his own words, created an intuitive model and showed how it could explain the gender difference in hiring. Though, since we don't have access to it, we can't see the content.
      We're talking about math, Leonhard. Models are what it does.
      I also have a hard time finding out what this all looks like from the case of those who had it taken down. So its his word currently, against no ones. And he sounds a bit like he's having sour grapes. He's arguing that Damore of Google infamy was taken down simply for suggesting binary distinctions, whereas Damore was actually openly within Google challenging their inclusive hiring practice as damaging to the company, and was therefore fired for violating internal policy.

      If he was taken down simply because of equality concern, I don't think that's fair, but I also don't think that's the whole story to this. Though, without having access to the article, its impossible to tell whether it was simply an old man's misogeny dressed up in equations.
      Google has an internal policy which prevents people from voicing disagreements with corporate practice? You're not helping your case here, Leonhard.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #4
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        Terrible analogy, Leonhard. If this were an article questioning climate change, it would never have been accepted in the first place.
        Actually its a fairly good comparison. Conservatives, like you, pretty much only care about 'political correctness' (a nebulous term) when it affects what they're writing. When it comes to climate change, or how the current administration pretty much muzzled the EPA, you guys have been completely silent. On that and a lot of other issues as well. Political correctness does not exist, or if it does its so amorphous a term to be frankly useless.

        We're talking about math, Leonhard. Models are what it does.
        Except this isn't an article on math, properly. Its about whether a difference variability of human intelligence can explain the data at hand. It might, which is a trivial point, but the article actually isn't about whether such variability does in fact exist. If it only dealt with the trivial point, then it doesn't appear to have been worth anything, or said anything new to begin with. So I really doubt the value of it.

        Again, I can only go by how he himself described it.

        And I haven't heard the other side, and since he's mostly interested in protecting his own claims I'll be treating them with some skepticism. There's just not anything original in his work if it really is just a simple intuitive mathematical model disconnected from evidence.

        Google has an internal policy which prevents people from voicing disagreements with corporate practice?
        Yeah that's not what I said.

        They don't have a policy of preventing anyone from voicing disagreement with corporate practice. At least not anymore than any other company out there. They do have a diversity hiring practice. They value diversity and are willing to invest significant energy into achieving it. The story of Damore, is just that he felt criticised of his conservative values and pressured into participating a 'Diversity and Inclusion Summit'. Why is it that conservatives feel its a threat to their values if equality in the work place is being pursued? He felt pressured to it because inside Google commitment to those values reflects on your likelihood of being promoted. At the end of that summit people were encouraged to write in about it and he did.

        The problem is he kept going, trying to draw support from people, actively working against those principles and trying to get people on his own sides, sending out multiple letters calling for an end to the diversity practices, both of women and minorities.

        At some point Google desired to fire him for pretty much working against company policy. He wasn't getting along with anyone. Do you disagree with companies firing people who are actively working against company policy?
        Last edited by Leonhard; 09-10-2018, 02:15 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
          Does political correctness include climate change, because the current conservative administration did something similar to the EPA, pretty much barring them from talking about climate change when abroad. Or the ban list they sent to the CDC about phrases they couldn't use anymore like 'evidence-based'.

          At any rate I agree this report shouldn't have been taken down for being against equality. It could simply have been taken down for being poor science. From his own mouth there wasn't any evidence being discussed in it, nor did he try to argue that the variability also applied to human intelligence (a controversial topic, meaning no one knows yet). He apparently, his own words, created an intuitive model and showed how it could explain the gender difference in hiring. Though, since we don't have access to it, we can't see the content.

          I also have a hard time finding out what this all looks like from the case of those who had it taken down. So its his word currently, against no ones. And he sounds a bit like he's having sour grapes. He's arguing that Damore of Google infamy was taken down simply for suggesting binary distinctions, whereas Damore was actually openly within Google challenging their inclusive hiring practice as damaging to the company, and was therefore fired for violating internal policy.

          If he was taken down simply because of equality concern, I don't think that's fair, but I also don't think that's the whole story to this. Though, without having access to the article, its impossible to tell whether it was simply an old man's misogeny dressed up in equations.
          Reading the article and the reasons the paper was removed, I see not one reason claiming it was removed for being faulty or having bad math. Every reason stated seems to be about political values.

          "At a faculty meeting the week before, the Department Head had explained that sometimes values such as academic freedom and free speech come into conflict with other values to which Penn State was committed."
          "withdraw my name to restore peace at the department and to avoid losing whatever political capital I may still have."...
          had warned the NSF that the paper promotes ideas "detrimental to the advancement of women in science, and at odds with the values of the NSF."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Reading the article and the reasons the paper was removed, I see not one reason claiming it was removed for being faulty or having bad math. Every reason stated seems to be about political values.

            "At a faculty meeting the week before, the Department Head had explained that sometimes values such as academic freedom and free speech come into conflict with other values to which Penn State was committed."
            "withdraw my name to restore peace at the department and to avoid losing whatever political capital I may still have."...
            had warned the NSF that the paper promotes ideas "detrimental to the advancement of women in science, and at odds with the values of the NSF."
            The problem is that all those quotes you're citing, seem to come entirely from him. If they're true in the way he says it, then I can't take his own word for it. He's being very secretive about his paper, which makes me wonder of substantial or not it was.

            Comment


            • #7
              PS here is the original paper:

              https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.04184.pdf

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                PS here is the original paper:

                https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.04184.pdf
                Ah good, its on Arxiv, thanks, I was wondering why he hadn't linked to it in his rant (not the one on Reason but the one he wrote on Quilette). I thought there were some copyright issues or something.

                I'm a bit disappointed to see that its precisely as thin a paper as I worried it would be. It basically just tries to show that variability does increase if one sex is more selective than the other. Which is trivially true. Darwin himself figured out that much even without access to the probabilistic calculus this professor used. I mean, you can produce a mathematical model of it you and prove it, but there's just not much value to it. Its a very simple model he has, without any attempt at discussing the complexity intelligence might be in a matter like this.

                It seems peer review has forced him to include at least some token articles with conclusions about human variability that runs counter to the idea that such a variability exist and isn't just a social construction or caused by things unrelated to essential biology.

                I would say that while the article is a bit empty, it isn't defunct. But it is also not very impressive and its merely repeating old work, which I think makes it fair game for criticism as to why its being published then.

                On review I don't think it should have been taken down for the reasons given, if, and that's a big if for me, how he reported what was happening really was what happened.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  Ah good, its on Arxiv, thanks, I was wondering why he hadn't linked to it in his rant (not the one on Reason but the one he wrote on Quilette). I thought there were some copyright issues or something.

                  I'm a bit disappointed to see that its precisely as thin a paper as I worried it would be. It basically just tries to show that variability does increase if one sex is more selective than the other. Which is trivially true. Darwin himself figured out that much even without access to the probabilistic calculus this professor used. I mean, you can produce a mathematical model of it you and prove it, but there's just not much value to it. Its a very simple model he has, without any attempt at discussing the complexity intelligence might be in a matter like this.

                  It seems peer review has forced him to include at least some token articles with conclusions about human variability that runs counter to the idea that such a variability exist and isn't just a social construction or caused by things unrelated to essential biology.

                  I would say that while the article is a bit empty, it isn't defunct. But it is also not very impressive and its merely repeating old work, which I think makes it fair game for criticism as to why its being published then.

                  On review I don't think it should have been taken down for the reasons given, if, and that's a big if for me, how he reported what was happening really was what happened.
                  he doesn't try to show that it happens. As you said, Darwin figured it out. He was showing a mathematical reason WHY it happens. I think you have some sort of bias here and were just trying to find a way to dismiss his paper and excuse the criticism. You started out with that attitude before even seeing it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    he doesn't try to show that it happens. As you said, Darwin figured it out. He was showing a mathematical reason WHY it happens. I think you have some sort of bias here and were just trying to find a way to dismiss his paper and excuse the criticism. You started out with that attitude before even seeing it.
                    And I changed my mind when you showed the paper. Should I not do that when I'm exposed to evidence?

                    And yes I'm fairly biased. I am a strong supporter of equality. That doesn't mean I can't update my views on a matter.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      And I changed my mind when you showed the paper. Should I not do that when I'm exposed to evidence?

                      And yes I'm fairly biased. I am a strong supporter of equality. That doesn't mean I can't update my views on a matter.
                      well you still stuck a "big IF" in there.

                      You are assuming for some reason that he is lying about the circumstances of his paper's removal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        well you still stuck a "big IF" in there.

                        You are assuming for some reason that he is lying about the circumstances of his paper's removal.
                        I'd rather say he's blind to it. People aren't very objective when it comes to things like that. He might be right, in which case I support him. But it looks a bit fishy to me. I admit that might be my bias, but it does.

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