Originally posted by Starlight
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Hurricane Florence is all Trump's Fault
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI agree, there needs to be a balance.
Doubling down on your assertion does not make it any less hysterical, Jim. An easy majority of your posts on Trump, from an objective point of view, are rife with hysteria. Your general thrust is that Trump is worse than all other presidents combined, by orders of magnitude. It is quite unsettling to see; I'd always viewed you as much more even-keeled in the past.
If Trump's policies allow businesses to return their businesses to former pollution levels after a battle to give teeth to a law restricting that pollution finally got teeth after more than 10 years of work, would it be hysteria to consider he 'set us back decades'?
Consider: Trump rescinded a rule put in place by Obama preventing coal companies from dumping waste into streams and rivers. But this Obama rule was a clarification of policies from 1977 and 1983 that had unsuccessfully been dealt with by Bush in 2008. All of those represented attempts to stop the practice, but which had holes in them the industry could get around. Is it really then 'hysteria' to consider that Trump rescinding that law which took almost 40 years to finally get teeth is not 'setting us back decades'?
Do we really want coal companies dumping waste containing heavy metals into streams and rivers?
Trump has his eyes on a bunch of air pollution standards related to coal too. Is that what we want? I'm glad most smoke stacks have filters on them now. It is a GOOD thing. And I know I would never want to live in a place like some of our cities used to be before those laws. It that 'hysteria' not to want Trump to succeed on those points?
As for being "even keeled." Talking science doesn't engage a great deal of emotion. These sorts of topics more so. When it comes to what is right and wrong, when it comes to abuse, lying and so on, I can be very passionate. So - perhaps you just only saw one side of me. I am who I am. I try to do what is right, I try to think things through logically. But I'll not apologize for caring about what Trump is doing to our country.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 09-12-2018, 09:06 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
-
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI agree, there needs to be a balance.
Doubling down on your assertion does not make it any less hysterical, Jim. An easy majority of your posts on Trump, from an objective point of view, are rife with hysteria. Your general thrust is that Trump is worse than all other presidents combined, by orders of magnitude. It is quite unsettling to see; I'd always viewed you as much more even-keeled in the past.
If he has claimed Trump is the worst, then he'd be dead wrong because James Buchanan was president. But unless he's made that specific claim, I think it's unfair to put those words into his mouth.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostIf he has claimed Trump is the worst, then he'd be dead wrong because James Buchanan was president."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostHas oxmixmudd ever actually stated he was worse than all presidents combined, or even the worst president? Maybe he has, but despite his strong criticisms of Trump I haven't seen him make that statement (I think he may have called Trump the most immoral--or maybe it was just one of the most immoral--but that's different from worst).
If he has claimed Trump is the worst, then he'd be dead wrong because James Buchanan was president. But unless he's made that specific claim, I think it's unfair to put those words into his mouth.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
-
Originally posted by Dimbulb View PostSetting aside the silly OP. My concerns on the topic are:
- The last hurricane, Maria in Puerto Rico, caused the biggest death toll (2,982) of any US natural disaster in the last 100 years. And most of those fatalities were preventable and occurred after the hurricane due to loss of power & water supplies. The Trump administration did a worse job of handling it than Bush did of Katrina. Less than 2 weeks after Maria I said Trump should resign due to his atrocious handling of the recovery, and a year later when it has become clear how many thousands of Americans died due to the incompetence of the response, Trump still refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever and literally rates his handling of the event as "higher than A+".
Stories like this certainly lend credence to rumors at the time that Puerto Rican government officials were refusing to distribute supplies for political reasons.
But it's all Trump's fault. No, really.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostEvidence says that Trump did his job, and the breakdown was with corrupt Puerto Rican government.
Immediately after the storm there were immediate reports of massive issues on the ground with electricity and drinking water and mass deaths. If I had been the US President I would have immediately deployed the entirety of the available US armed forces in the region there to provide water and generators and to air-drop supplies in.
Obviously after the Nov elections the House Dems will launch some big investigations into what people knew and when they knew it and who exactly was responsible for all the deaths. But for me, the buck stops with the President. He could have acted, and he didn't, and Americans died. This is like Bush with Katrina, but 10 times as bad."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostThe only comparative scholarly survey for ranking presidents that we've had since Trump has been in office, ranked him the worst ever President, one worse than Buchanan. It seems bizarre to me that you state your own subjective opinion on the matter as if it were an objective fact.
Admittedly, I'm also of the opinion that one cannot truly attempt to rank any sitting president until they have left office, so I'd dislike the moniker of worst (or best) president being applied to any sitting president regardless.Last edited by Terraceth; 09-13-2018, 12:01 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostI do strongly believe that for whatever failings Trump has (and there are many), he's not as spectacularly bad as Buchanan was."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostSetting aside the silly OP. My concerns on the topic are:
- The last hurricane, Maria in Puerto Rico, caused the biggest death toll (2,982) of any US natural disaster in the last 100 years. And most of those fatalities were preventable and occurred after the hurricane due to loss of power & water supplies. The Trump administration did a worse job of handling it than Bush did of Katrina. Less than 2 weeks after Maria I said Trump should resign due to his atrocious handling of the recovery, and a year later when it has become clear how many thousands of Americans died due to the incompetence of the response, Trump still refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever and literally rates his handling of the event as "higher than A+".
- The Trump administration has funneled $10m out of FEMA to fund ICE. So despite their past failures at hurricane recovery, and their knowledge that more hurricanes are coming, they instead want to spend the money separating families and imprisoning babies.
- The Trump administration has utterly failed to address the global problem of climate change that many scientists agree is making hurricanes worse and more frequent.
Actually, while he certainly didn't do well there was really not much he could do. The power grid had been allowed to deteriorate to such a degree over the years due to corruption and incompetence that it was in effect being held together by the proverbial spit and bailing wire
And the situation was exacerbated by continuing corruption after the hurricane struck slowing things down even further.
For years the experts had been warning Puerto Rico of a catastrophic failure of their power grid do to the state of disrepair it had been allowed to fall in and how a major hurricane could wipe it out and when it happened everyone expected the U.S. government to step in and rebuild a system pretty much from the ground up overnight.
You might have also noticed that right after Maria the MSM started blasting Trump about his supposed inaction, but as the facts emerged most of them quickly all but dropped it. This is the same media that has gone on for nearly two years about the supposed collusion between Trump and Putin in spite of there not being a shred of authentic corroborating evidence and yet they dropped this instead of relentlessly pounding on him about it 24/7. So unless you think the MSM is now trying to cover up for Trump like they were covering up for Harvey Weinstein even they understand that all the evidence shows that this was a horrible tragedy just waiting to happen and very little can be done to fix it quickly.
With the high death count Trump's statement the other day saying that the response was "incredibly successful" displayed an incredible tin ear. While a case could be made that the response was a major logistical success (especially when you consider that we're dealing with an island where things needed to be shipped in rather than simply brought in by truck -- and the hoarding by the Puerto Rican agencies of everything from critical supplies and equipment to much needed bottled water), to call it "incredibly successful" was profoundly insensitive.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostThe buck stops with the President. Americans died on his watch. He could have stopped it. He didn't.
Immediately after the storm there were immediate reports of massive issues on the ground with electricity and drinking water and mass deaths. If I had been the US President I would have immediately deployed the entirety of the available US armed forces in the region there to provide water and generators and to air-drop supplies in.
Obviously after the Nov elections the House Dems will launch some big investigations into what people knew and when they knew it and who exactly was responsible for all the deaths. But for me, the buck stops with the President. He could have acted, and he didn't, and Americans died. This is like Bush with Katrina, but 10 times as bad.
1 As the head of FEMA, Brock Long, stated on Good Morning America "We faced a crumbling infrastructure, it was rotted and decayed, and FEMA can’t help that."
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostWith the high death count Trump's statement the other day saying that the response was "incredibly successful" displayed an incredible tin ear. While a case could be made that the response was a major logistical success (especially when you consider that we're dealing with an island where things needed to be shipped in rather than simply brought in by truck -- and the hoarding by the Puerto Rican agencies of everything from critical supplies and equipment to much needed bottled water), to call it "incredibly successful" was profoundly insensitive.
The failure to do that, and instead the "well we delivered the drinking water to the warehouse near the airport... oh, everyone died, oh well" attitude simply astounds me.
By day 2 after the hurricane I was hearing news 3rd hand from someone who'd called their relative on the island that there were serious problems because all the hospitals were out of power and their backup generators were out of fuel. And if I was hearing that, why hadn't the President been informed of that 24 hours earlier and why wasn't the President acting on it? That's "I'm calling in the military, I'll be in the situation room" time. And the news got worse from the island every day after that. After 2 weeks, it was clear there had been mass casualties and the President had fiddled while Rome burned. Now the guy grades his response as better than A+. A reasonable person would offer their resignation after failing that badly and getting so many Americans needlessly killed on their watch.Last edited by Starlight; 09-13-2018, 05:19 AM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostDid you read my post or just react to the fact I didn't happen to agree with the majority take on it?
It would appear it is the latter because I certainly didn't offer any agreement whatsoever with the idea Florence is somehow Trump's fault. I criticized that approach to the headline in fact.
Jim
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostSetting aside the silly OP. My concerns on the topic are:
- The last hurricane, Maria in Puerto Rico, caused the biggest death toll (2,982) of any US natural disaster in the last 100 years. And most of those fatalities were preventable and occurred after the hurricane due to loss of power & water supplies. The Trump administration did a worse job of handling it than Bush did of Katrina. Less than 2 weeks after Maria I said Trump should resign due to his atrocious handling of the recovery, and a year later when it has become clear how many thousands of Americans died due to the incompetence of the response, Trump still refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever and literally rates his handling of the event as "higher than A+".
- The Trump administration has funneled $10m out of FEMA to fund ICE. So despite their past failures at hurricane recovery, and their knowledge that more hurricanes are coming, they instead want to spend the money separating families and imprisoning babies.
- The Trump administration has utterly failed to address the global problem of climate change that many scientists agree is making hurricanes worse and more frequent.
FEMA is independent of Trump. I find it funny how you keep blaming Trump personally for the actions of government agencies like ICE or FEMA and never accuse Congress for any of it, or the agencies themselves. Apparently in your world Trump personally supervises every agency in the US government. He is such a busy guy.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by rogue06, Yesterday, 09:33 AM
|
8 responses
82 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by oxmixmudd
Yesterday, 03:41 PM
|
||
Started by whag, 04-16-2024, 10:43 PM
|
51 responses
292 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
Yesterday, 04:42 PM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 04-16-2024, 09:38 AM
|
0 responses
27 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by rogue06
04-16-2024, 09:38 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 04-16-2024, 06:47 AM
|
83 responses
357 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Yesterday, 01:46 PM
|
||
Started by carpedm9587, 04-14-2024, 02:07 PM
|
57 responses
361 views
2 likes
|
Last Post
by oxmixmudd
Yesterday, 07:12 PM
|
Comment