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Time To Smear Kavanaugh's Good Name...

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  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    Yet another lie by Kavanaugh I've just come across was that in his hearing he went out of his way to insist that he got into Yale purely on his own merits because he "had no connections". This was part of his narrative he kept repeating about how he was "busting his tail" during school as he worked so incredibly hard for good grades (and hence wasn't the sort to drink hugely, even though everyone who knows him says he drank hugely).

    Well, it turns out his rather Trumpian story about being a self-made man and having got into Yale purely on his own merits and without connections... was Trumpian in its truth value. He was actually a legacy student because his grandfather had been to Yale. Kavanaugh's yearbook thus lists him as a legacy student. Oops. So he actually had connections and didn't get into Yale purely based on "busting his tail" after all... Lie number 17 or so from Kavanaugh under oath.


    A few other lies that I'm not sure have been touched on in this thread include the fact that Kavanaugh claimed that he hadn't watched Dr Ford's testimony when in fact he'd been part of a group of Republican aides watching her testimony in a nearby room together on TV, and the letter Kavanaugh wrote to his friends about organizing Beach Week has been produced in which he emphasizes heavily how much the group drink and puke (contrary to his testimony that he wasn't an excessively heavy drinker) and he also writes "I think we [friends] are unanimous that any girls we can beg to stay there [with us] are welcomed with open . . ." ellipsis in his original letter at this point, implying sexual innuendo and that it's not just "open arms" they'll be welcoming the girls with but open other things too.
    Too bad none of this is illegal because if it was, I know a few dozen men that would be in prison.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      Too bad none of this is illegal because if it was, I know a few dozen men that would be in prison.
      Perjury is illegal.

      The specific things he lied about were not themselves illegal.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
        His proposed definition of "boof" as "fart" is implausible, because he wrote in the yearbook asking one of his friends if he'd "boofed" yet. Nobody writes "have you farted yet?" in a yearbook. His yearbook usage of the term is compatible with the standard usage however.

        Likewise him and his friends writing "Renate Alumnus" in their yearbooks was a clear claim to sexual conquest of Renate by them. (It need not have been true, if he'd said "well I felt I had to make this claim to fit in with my bros at the time, and looking back on it I feel terrible to have written this about Renate" that would have been fine) But instead, firstly he gave through his lawyer the dubiously-plausible response that it was because he kissed Renate goodbye after a party and referring to getting a (chaste) kiss with Renate. But then during senate testimony he changed this to the utterly implausible "it was to honor Renate as one of the crew". Renate, by her own public response to this 'honor' appears to interpret it as the obvious claim that they all slept with her and is horrified by it and denies it, and Kavanaugh apparently apologized to her for it... a strange response for being "honored" as one of the group. So he seems to have had zero qualms about telling outright lies such as this under oath about the terms in his yearbook.
        Where's the proof that Kavanaugh is lying? Just because things written in a high school yearbook can be interpreted in different ways doesn't prove deceit. A perjury charge would require evidence that Kavanaugh was familiar with and intended the alternative meanings.

        And, yeah, I could totally picture a high school boy asking, "Have you farted yet?"
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          People change. A large number of people developed fears of flying after 911. Trauma like that alleged can create additional fears over time if not dealt with.

          None of this babble you guys keep dredging up has any real meaning. It's just speculation about what ought to be based on ignorance concerning what is typical in cases like this.

          Jim
          Interesting how there doesn’t see to be any mention of this fear and it didn’t stop her from making flights for both work and pleasure.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Where's the proof that Kavanaugh is lying? Just because things written in a high school yearbook can be interpreted in different ways doesn't prove deceit. A perjury charge would require evidence that Kavanaugh was familiar with and intended the alternative meanings.

            And, yeah, I could totally picture a high school boy asking, "Have you farted yet?"
            Sounds like he didn’t know many high school boys.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              Perjury is illegal.

              The specific things he lied about were not themselves illegal.
              Do you have any proof that he was being literal or that it was a regular occurrence?
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Textbook hand waving.
                Sorry MM. The issue here is that the people you are quoting are not interested in what is true, they are interested in painting Ford evil, and Kavanaugh good. They are not taking the issues presented and trying to understand them in light of the accusation and the whole of the case, in context. They are looking for holes to poke at. And one way to find holes to poke at in any statement is rip it out of its context. For example, one of the previous complaints about the doors was the supposed timeline, when the statement used to justify the complaint was taken from her testimony concerning the counseling session or sessions where she described the order of the topics of discussion as they evolved into her discussion of the assault, which the 'reporter' reinterpreted as a physical timeline and then assumed she was claiming the extra door was installed in 2012 and then noting it was installed in 2007. When, if the 'reporter' had just read the account in its entirety an in context, it is rather obvious that she's simply describing the order of the discussion in the counseling session.

                This issue of a fear of flying. Has she said anything about how long she has been afraid of flying, or when she began to be afraid of flying? If not, then it is nothing but pure assumption this was some sort of life-long thing. In know a lady that in her late 20's developed a horrible fear of driving over bridges that was provoked by witnessing a truck going off a bridge, killing the driver. She has only in her 50's begun to see that fear wane. But if you asked anyone who dated her in college if she was afraid of going over bridges, they would say exactly what this fellow said "I never saw her exhibit any fear of going over bridges". It is a simple fact we can develop new fears over time with or without direct cause. It is a simple fact that fears undealt with can grow and manifest in new ways. The assault occurred some 35 years ago. The counselling session(s) dealing with it were only 5 years ago. That is 30 years for the secondary effects and fears from the assault to grow.

                It's just so much ignorance based speculation - with a specific goal in mind - prove regardless of what the facts are that Ford is lying. These reporters are not psychologists, you are not a psychologist, I am not a psychologist. None of us is qualified to assess if these are reasonable statements in light of what happened to here (independent of whether it was Kavanaugh). but I am willing to let it be possible and not proven. You and so many others under Trumps spell are hell bent on destroying this woman no matter what the cost. (and I will admit there are plenty of people USING HER that are hell bent on destroying Kavanaugh). That doesn't change the fact you have no right to pass the sort of judgement on her you are so willing to dole out.

                She may very well be exactly what she says she is. There is nothing inconsistent about being afraid to come forward until the stakes where high enough she felt she had to speak up. And so far nothing in her testimony that points to any sort of fraud. Indeed, you and so many on this site, and what Donald Trump did last night are absolute proof this woman - or any woman - is absolutely justified in being deathly afraid to speak out. Especially if the man that assaulted her is in general highly regarded.

                And no, I'm not forgetting that men falsely accused face another sort of equally difficult and justified fear. But I am answering a post trying trying to poke holes in Ford's testimony based on ignorant speculation.



                Jim
                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-03-2018, 07:49 AM.
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Where's the proof that Kavanaugh is lying? Just because things written in a high school yearbook can be interpreted in different ways doesn't prove deceit. A perjury charge would require evidence that Kavanaugh was familiar with and intended the alternative meanings.

                  And, yeah, I could totally picture a high school boy asking, "Have you farted yet?"
                  You are right that it is possible 'some' of these comments could have special meanings unique to their little group of friends. It is very unlikely they ALL do, given they grew up in a culture we are all familiar with and which has well known definitions of those terms. But more directly - we have eyewitness testimony he was lying about the intensity and frequency of his partying and drinking. And with good reason. The testimony he become belligerent when drunk goes to how he could be found to exhibit behavior different from his sober norm. And that sort of extreme binge drinking undermines his claim he has never blacked out or never forgot events from a night of partying or drinking. And those simple facts which he clearly lied about are the most likely explanation for why he could be truthful in denying the claim while Ford is truthful in describing it. He simply was too drunk to remember what he did.

                  Jim
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View Post
                    Sorry MM. The issue here is that the people you are quoting are not interested in what is true, they are interested in painting Ford evil, and Kavanaugh good. They are not taking the issues presented and trying to understand them in light of the accusation and the whole of the case, in context. They are looking for holes to poke at. And one way to find holes to poke at in any statement is rip it out of its context. For example, one of the previous complaints about the doors was the supposed timeline, when the statement used to justify the complaint was taken from her testimony concerning the counseling session or sessions where she described the order of the topics of discussion as they evolved into her discussion of the assault, which the 'reporter' reinterpreted as a physical timeline and then assumed she was claiming the extra door was installed in 2012 and then noting it was installed in 2007. When, if the 'reporter' had just read the account in its entirety an in context, it is rather obvious that she's simply describing the order of the discussion in the counseling session.

                    This issue of a fear of flying. Has she said anything about how long she has been afraid of flying, or when she began to be afraid of flying? If not, then it is nothing but pure assumption this was some sort of life-long thing. In know a lady that in her late 20's developed a horrible fear of driving over bridges that was provoked by witnessing a truck going off a bridge, killing the driver. She has only in her 50's begun to see that fear wane. But if you asked anyone who dated her in college if she was afraid of going over bridges, they would say exactly what this fellow said "I never saw her exhibit any fear of going over bridges". It is a simple fact we can develop new fears over time with or without direct cause. It is a simple fact that fears undealt with can grow and manifest in new ways. The assault occurred some 35 years ago. The counselling session(s) dealing with it were only 5 years ago. That is 30 years for the secondary effects and fears from the assault to grow.

                    It's just so much ignorance based speculation - with a specific goal in mind - prove regardless of what the facts are that Ford is lying. These reporters are not psychologists, you are not a psychologist, I am not a psychologist. None of us is qualified to assess if these are reasonable statements in light of what happened to here (independent of whether it was Kavanaugh). but I am willing to let it be possible and not proven. You and so many others under Trumps spell are hell bent on destroying this woman no matter what the cost. (and I will admit there are plenty of people USING HER that are hell bent on destroying Kavanaugh). That doesn't change the fact you have no right to pass the sort of judgement on her you are so willing to dole out.

                    She may very well be exactly what she says she is. There is nothing inconsistent about being afraid to come forward until the stakes where high enough she felt she had to speak up. And so far nothing in her testimony that points to any sort of fraud. Indeed, you and so many on this site, and what Donald Trump did last night are absolute proof this woman - or any woman - is absolutely justified in being deathly afraid to speak out. Especially if the man that assaulted her is in general highly regarded.

                    And no, I'm not forgetting that men falsely accused face another sort of equally difficult and justified fear. But I am answering a post trying trying to poke holes in Ford's testimony based on ignorant speculation.



                    Jim
                    Doubling down on your hand waving doesn't help your case.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Sorry MM. The issue here is that the people you are quoting are not interested in what is true, they are interested in painting Ford evil, and Kavanaugh good. They are not taking the issues presented and trying to understand them in light of the accusation and the whole of the case, in context. They are looking for holes to poke at. And one way to find holes to poke at in any statement is rip it out of its context. For example, one of the previous complaints about the doors was the supposed timeline, when the statement used to justify the complaint was taken from her testimony concerning the counseling session or sessions where she described the order of the topics of discussion as they evolved into her discussion of the assault, which the 'reporter' reinterpreted as a physical timeline and then assumed she was claiming the extra door was installed in 2012 and then noting it was installed in 2007. When, if the 'reporter' had just read the account in its entirety an in context, it is rather obvious that she's simply describing the order of the discussion in the counseling session.

                      This issue of a fear of flying. Has she said anything about how long she has been afraid of flying, or when she began to be afraid of flying? If not, then it is nothing but pure assumption this was some sort of life-long thing. In know a lady that in her late 20's developed a horrible fear of driving over bridges that was provoked by witnessing a truck going off a bridge, killing the driver. She has only in her 50's begun to see that fear wane. But if you asked anyone who dated her in college if she was afraid of going over bridges, they would say exactly what this fellow said "I never saw her exhibit any fear of going over bridges". It is a simple fact we can develop new fears over time with or without direct cause. It is a simple fact that fears undealt with can grow and manifest in new ways. The assault occurred some 35 years ago. The counselling session(s) dealing with it were only 5 years ago. That is 30 years for the secondary effects and fears from the assault to grow.

                      It's just so much ignorance based speculation - with a specific goal in mind - prove regardless of what the facts are that Ford is lying. These reporters are not psychologists, you are not a psychologist, I am not a psychologist. None of us is qualified to assess if these are reasonable statements in light of what happened to here (independent of whether it was Kavanaugh). but I am willing to let it be possible and not proven. You and so many others under Trumps spell are hell bent on destroying this woman no matter what the cost. (and I will admit there are plenty of people USING HER that are hell bent on destroying Kavanaugh). That doesn't change the fact you have no right to pass the sort of judgement on her you are so willing to dole out.

                      She may very well be exactly what she says she is. There is nothing inconsistent about being afraid to come forward until the stakes where high enough she felt she had to speak up. And so far nothing in her testimony that points to any sort of fraud. Indeed, you and so many on this site, and what Donald Trump did last night are absolute proof this woman - or any woman - is absolutely justified in being deathly afraid to speak out. Especially if the man that assaulted her is in general highly regarded.

                      And no, I'm not forgetting that men falsely accused face another sort of equally difficult and justified fear. But I am answering a post trying trying to poke holes in Ford's testimony based on ignorant speculation.



                      Jim
                      Same case can be made in reverse. So what’s your point?
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View Post
                        You are right that it is possible 'some' of these comments could have special meanings unique to their little group of friends. It is very unlikely they ALL do, given they grew up in a culture we are all familiar with and which has well known definitions of those terms. But more directly - we have eyewitness testimony he was lying about the intensity and frequency of his partying and drinking. And with good reason. The testimony he become belligerent when drunk goes to how he could be found to exhibit behavior different from his sober norm. And that sort of extreme binge drinking undermines his claim he has never blacked out or never forgot events from a night of partying or drinking. And those simple facts which he clearly lied about are the most likely explanation for why he could be truthful in denying the claim while Ford is truthful in describing it. He simply was too drunk to remember what he did.

                        Jim
                        I suppose the other witnesses named by Ford were also too drunk to remember. And Ford herself was too drunk to remember how she got to the party, how she got home, how many people were at the party, and how many guys assaulted her, right?

                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          I suppose the other witnesses named by Ford were also too drunk to remember. And Ford herself was too drunk to remember how she got to the party, how she got home, how many people were at the party, and how many guys assaulted her, right?

                          yourself MM.

                          You have already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt you have no interest in truth or reason on these issues. That was proven as we discussed the simple, objective, scientific facts surrounding the oblique angle pictures from the Capitol vs the overhead shot pictures from the Washington monument. With simple high school physics and optics in play and showing exactly, and in minute detail, how the photos were equivalent, you still held on to your delusion. Given that, I have no expectation there is any amount of rational discussion that could possibly sway you from your attacks on Ford. I answer your posts on that topic only so as to provide some sort of reasoned but contrasting analysis.


                          Jim
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            yourself MM.

                            You have already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt you have no interest in truth or reason on these issues. That was proven as we discussed the simple, objective, scientific facts surrounding the oblique angle pictures from the Capitol vs the overhead shot pictures from the Washington monument. With simple high school physics and optics in play and showing exactly, and in minute detail, how the photos were equivalent, you still held on to your delusion. Given that, I have no expectation there is any amount of rational discussion that could possibly sway you from your attacks on Ford. I answer your posts on that topic only so as to provide some sort of reasoned but contrasting analysis.


                            Jim
                            You are aware of the irony-laden nature of your post, right? Each side in this debate is convinced that the other side is being willfully blind and unreasoning. Can we stop wasting everyone's time by repeating the accusations ad nausaeum?
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              yourself MM.

                              You have already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt you have no interest in truth or reason on these issues. That was proven as we discussed the simple, objective, scientific facts surrounding the oblique angle pictures from the Capitol vs the overhead shot pictures from the Washington monument. With simple high school physics and optics in play and showing exactly, and in minute detail, how the photos were equivalent, you still held on to your delusion. Given that, I have no expectation there is any amount of rational discussion that could possibly sway you from your attacks on Ford. I answer your posts on that topic only so as to provide some sort of reasoned but contrasting analysis.


                              Jim
                              That’s ironic since here you are ignoring experts that are saying Ford’s testimony is unverified and untrustworthy. Keep telling the kettle how black it is though.
                              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                You are aware of the irony-laden nature of your post, right? Each side in this debate is convinced that the other side is being willfully blind and unreasoning. Can we stop wasting everyone's time by repeating the accusations ad nausaeum?
                                My comment about the Capitol/Washington Monument inauguration pictures is not opinion. There is no possibility of reasoned debate. That is optics and the science of perspective, and the crowd conditions in both are nearly identical. It is simple fact. And it is simple ignorance and/or bias that is at work with MM's (or anyone, you, rogue, sparko doesn't matter) continued claim the use of those pictures represents some sort of conspiracy to post inaccurate pictures of the event.

                                So there is no irony in my post. MM has demonstrated objectively and factually that when it comes to these issues, he is capable of rejecting irrefutable fact and reason in favor of a delusion that he would prefer to believe.



                                Jim
                                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-03-2018, 08:43 AM.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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