Time To Smear Kavanaugh's Good Name...

[lilpixieofterror]

It's not ironic, Rogue - it's sad. Sexual assault degrades all of us. The victim (when it is real) usually gets no justice. The accused (when it is not real) usually gets no justice. That people are so incredibly ready to jump on a "side" because it aligns with their politics adds to the tragedy. That people cannot see beyond their politics and biases to see this very real situation is...well...tragic.

If that makes me a "drama queen," so be it. Id' rather be a compassionate drama queen then an insensitive/unfeeling oaf ready to "take a side" for the team.

Prove that you’re not a rapist and if you can’t, you wouldn’t mind having your entire life destroyed based on unsupported claims, right?

[oxmixmudd]

Could you maintain your attitude if it was your son or your father or your brother? See, it cuts both ways.

Yes it does cut both ways. Yet I am responding to the irrational request the victim be silent if they did not come forward immediately. So my responses appear one sided. The accused is innocent till proven guilty. And there can be no compromise there.

Believe it or not I have in my past dealt with situations like this. It is hard. You defend the one you love, but you understand the difficulty to the loved ones on the other side as well.

Sin has great consequence. And it is not always clear where the actual sin lies. No one is served by rush to judgement, hatred or the desire for revenge, or by fear. The Bible tells us how to deal with evil, but it is not easy do it Christ's way.

But it is the best and the right way.

Jim

[Littlejoe]

Yes it does. I am responding to the irrational request the victim be silent if the did not come forward immediately. So my responses appear one sided. The accused is innocent till proven guilty. And there can be no compromise there.

Believe it or not I have in my past dealt situations like this. It is hard. You defend the one you love, but you understand the difficulty to the loved ones on the other side as well.

Sin has great consequence. And it is not always clear where the actual sin lies. No one is served by rush to judgement, hatred or the desire for revenge, or by fear. The Bible tells us how to deal with evil, but it is not easy do it Christ's way.

But it is the best and the right way.

Jim

I have also had to deal with a situation like this...

It IS hard. Fortunately the truth came out (in our favor). It's why I reserve judgement, but am skeptical against Ford's charges...but not dismissive of them.

[rogue06]

Yes it does. I am responding to the irrational request the victim...

I believe that this use of language that automatically transforms an accuser into a victim when nothing has been demonstrated has been a problem.

[NorrinRadd]

One of our local therapists, in dealing with young women, encourages them "if you can't talk to anybody, write down what happened, and mail (email or snail mail - snail male preferrably) it to yourself".

Her reasoning is
A) You will have a record of what happened date/time stamped by the USPS (just keep the letter and don't open it)
2) It will help you focus your thoughts and document what you believe actually happened
3) If, at a later time, you want to go public, you'll have the details recorded

It's not a slam dunk "it happened", but just think where we would be if Ford had done that, or written in a diary, or shared that information with a friend at the time it allegedly happened.

May I share this on Facebook?

[NorrinRadd]

Just having an idea for something isn't enough for a patent. you have to actually make it work. Heck I have all sorts of ideas that don't exist yet. One of my favorites is digital glasses or contacts, where the lenses adapt to your prescription and can also double as display overlays for augmented reality, or allow you to see in the dark, or zoom in like binoculars. When they invent those, remember I thought of it first!

Will it come with an ear piece?

[carpedm9587]

I listened. And watched. That's what convinced me she was lying through her teeth. A well-rehearsed attempt to look like a damaged teenager, down to the tousled hair in her face. It was quite tragically comical, to be honest. Sound both like a well-seasoned psychologist AND a scared little girl.

Always. It's a good thing to see how we can be manipulated by others and work to minimize that.

I am not surprised you came down on the side of Kavanaugh. I think I could have predicted that.

[carpedm9587]

Prove that you’re not a rapist and if you can’t, you wouldn’t mind having your entire life destroyed based on unsupported claims, right?

Since that has nothing to do with anything I said, I have no response (beyond this).

[lilpixieofterror]

Since that has nothing to do with anything I said, I have no response (beyond this).

Don’t want the Kavanaugh treatment?

[NorrinRadd]

I listened. And watched. That's what convinced me she was lying through her teeth. A well-rehearsed attempt to look like a damaged teenager, down to the tousled hair in her face. It was quite tragically comical, to be honest. Sound both like a well-seasoned psychologist AND a scared little girl.
...

YES!!! That hurt her credibility in my eyes more than all the holes in her testimony.

[oxmixmudd]

I believe that this use of language that automatically transforms an accuser into a victim when nothing has been demonstrated has been a problem.

Rogue - you can't know if the accusation is false. I can add the word 'alleged' if it will make a rational discussion easier, but it's all basically the same thing.

So far the arguments against my points have as their underlying assumption the alleged victim is lying.

That assumption is NOT justified by the facts or by the evidence.

My points are also based on general moral principles. Which is all one can do when there is not proof one way or the other. And there is nothing moral about requiring a person that believes they were assaulted by someone to shut their mouths if it's been a few years. So to do the right thing we have to allow the possibility some people will abuse that right thing.

In this case, there was a lot of evil floating around on both sides trying to manipulate the process to get what they wanted. And a lot of people on both sides were hurt by that. And that evil (both republican and democrat) deserves a lot of disgust an anger. But don't you see that the sort of absolutist judgement of Ford so many of you are acting out on here is exactly the same sort of mindset that - unrestrained by your general moral character - has produced the death threats and hatred that both sides have been devastated by?

The people that protested at the supreme court are just a sure Kavanaugh did it as you and Sparko are sure Ford is lying. And they are acting out of the same rage and anger at a perceived injustice that you guys are.

Yet none of us actually knows what really happened.




Jim

[carpedm9587]

Don’t want the Kavanaugh treatment?

I don't want to waste time on tangents

[carpedm9587]

Rogue - you can't know if the accusation is false. I can add the word 'alleged' if it will make a rational discussion easier, but it's all basically the same thing.

So far the arguments against my points have as their underlying assumption the alleged victim is lying.

That assumption is NOT justified by the facts or by the evidence.

My points are also based on general moral principles. Which is all one can do when there is not proof one way or the other. And there is nothing moral about requiring a person that believes they were assaulted by someone to shut their mouths if it's been a few years. So to do the right thing we have to allow the possibility some people will abuse that right thing.

In this case, there was a lot of evil floating around on both sides trying to manipulate the process to get what they wanted. And a lot of people on both sides were hurt by that. And that evil (both republican and democrat) deserves a lot of disgust an anger. But don't you see that the sort of absolutist judgement of Ford so many of you are acting out on here is exactly the same sort of mindset that - unrestrained by your general moral character - has produced the death threats and hatred that both sides have been devastated by?

The people that protested at the supreme court are just a sure Kavanaugh did it as you and Sparko are sure Ford is lying. And they are acting out of the same rage and anger at a perceived injustice that you guys are.

Yet none of us actually knows what really happened.

Jim

Well said...

[oxmixmudd]

I listened. And watched. That's what convinced me she was lying through her teeth. A well-rehearsed attempt to look like a damaged teenager, down to the tousled hair in her face. It was quite tragically comical, to be honest. Sound both like a well-seasoned psychologist AND a scared little girl.



Always. It's a good thing to see how we can be manipulated by others and work to minimize that.

Do you know Ford's general demeanor well enough to know that isn't her normal persona?

I personally know several very intelligent and successful women in their careers that present a very similar demeanor when stressed or sometimes just in everyday conversation. It's just who they are.

What evidence do you have other than your own disdain for her that you are correct in your assessment this aspect of her testimony was false?


Jim

[rogue06]

Rogue - you can't know if the accusation is false.

I do know that there is absolutely no corroborating evidence and that the story is full of significant holes and has changed several times. But my point is that when an accuser is automatically bestowed the status of victim when nothing has been proved (and in this case no substantiating evidence existed) it tends to color perceptions often resulting in a presumption of guilt.

I can add the word 'alleged' if it will make a rational discussion easier, but it's all basically the same thing.

It does (for the first) and isn't (for the second).

So far the arguments against my points have as their underlying assumption the alleged victim is lying.

I've steadily maintained that if she is the victim of an implanted false memory (likely at the hands of her therapist) she would not be lying because she believes what she says. However, as more and more surfaces it looks increasingly like she became a willing pawn, but this could be the result of a need for "justice" for something she believes is true.