Time To Smear Kavanaugh's Good Name...

[Starlight]

And as was said in the hearing any Senator can ask the FBI for an investigation on their own if they want.

Were you listening to an imaginary hearing? The President is the one who needs to request an investigation.

The only physical evidence after more than 35 years was Cavanaugh's calendar.

And those calendars contain an entry that appears highly relevant, which was singled out in the hearings today...



It was clarified that in that entry "skis" refers to brewskis (beer). It is thus a party that matches Ford's description and described attendees, and contradicts Kavanaugh's claim he couldn't possibly have attended an event like that she describes because he was away on weekends etc.

[One Bad Pig]

CP, I said nothing about whether or not anyone denounced them. Some Christians DO denounce the "angry Christian." Some are "angry Christians" themselves. Some are silent. Westboro is most certainly on the extreme end of this angry vein. But they are not the only ones of that ilk. A quick look through these pages will find a LOT of vitriolic, sarcastic, angry posting. Yesterday I was driving through Birmingham on my way to a class and pulled up behind a car festooned with Christian bumper stickers. The newest one, covering several of the other Christian-themed bumper stickers, said "Proud member of the Angry Mob." This is the vein to which I am referring. To deny that it exists is as silly as for me to deny that there are a lot of atheists out there who are angry, militant, and more anti-theist than atheist.

Based on the reaction from OBP, MM, and you, I seem to have stepped on a sensitive nerve. I can understand MM, because he is one of those I see as chronically posting in this "angry" tenor and I identified him specifically. I'm not sure why this nerve is sensitive for you and OBP.

Your inclusion of MM is one reason why I was so dismissive, because it's so wide of the mark. I don't always agree with MM or his posting style, but "angry and vindictive"? The bumper sticker you reference appears from this remove as rather tongue in cheek. I'm half-tempted to get a "proud deplorable" bumper sticker - not because I think it's accurate, but because I'll take that intended slur and use it as a mock badge of honor. If you're looking for vitriol, look no further than your compatriots JimL and tassman. And... sensitive nerve? Meh. More like incredulity at how far off-base you are. Ironic that you seem to think you can read us while protesting that we "mostly" misread you. I'm not sure, at this point, you could strike a nerve with me if you tried; I've learned to take your pronouncements with such a large grain of salt that they don't have much effect.

[Sparko]

I absolutely can, and frankly I find it disgusting when people don't. A entire family is not responsible for the actions of a single member. People who conflate one person with their family are just being ridiculous and I find it pathetic that US conservatives do it so often, especially when they are accused of a crime and want to evade personal responsibility.

There is plenty of evidence Kavanaugh lied multiple times throughout his hearing today. His college acquaintances are attesting he lied about his degree of drinking, and that he lied about the meaning of 3 out of 4 terms in his yearbook.

I am going to go out on a limb and say you are not married or have any children. And probably no siblings. Your attitude is so bizarre.

His wife and daughter have to endure the stigma surrounding the accusations for the rest of their lives. There will never be any resolution to the accusations unless someone can prove something one way or the other, which is very unlikely. Which means the Kavanaugh's will be ostracized from a lot of society wherever they go, for years. His daughter will be teased in school about her rapist dad. They have already gotten threats from people. If he doesn't get the nomination, he will probably have to step down as a federal judge because of his ruined reputation. Which affects his whole family.

[JimL]

I notice you didn't actually answer my question. Interesting.

That's because your question is irrelevant. How the accused feels, or how his family is affected, is irrelevant as to his innocence or guilt. Dr. Ford was completely credible, she told her story to various people years prior even to Trumps nominating of Kavanaugh. She wrote to her Congresswoman about the incident prior to Trumps nomination of Kavanaugh as well. It's obviously not a made up story, and corroboration comes only with an honest investigation of the accusation, an investigation which never took place. The Republicans could also have subpoenaed M. Judge and had him testify under oath but refused to do so. It's all really to obvious, but republicans don't really care because they think that their constituency are really a bunch of dumbells who will believe whatever they tell them to believe.

[Zymologist]

I am going to go out on a limb and say you are not married or have any children. And probably no siblings. Your attitude is so bizarre.

His wife and daughter have to endure the stigma surrounding the accusations for the rest of their lives. There will never be any resolution to the accusations unless someone can prove something one way or the other, which is very unlikely. Which means the Kavanaugh's will be ostracized from a lot of society wherever they go, for years. His daughter will be teased in school about her rapist dad. They have already gotten threats from people. If he doesn't get the nomination, he will probably have to step down as a federal judge because of his ruined reputation. Which affects his whole family.

I could easily see damage to reputations even if the accusations are disproven.

[carpedm9587]

"a sensitive nerve"? No, Carpe, you're just wrong, and I'm sharing my opinion. Stop assigning emotions to people based on your own "read" of them. This is what gets so annoying --- You read something and assign a motive or emotion to it, you show it to friends or family out of context, and - wha-lah! It's TRUE!

Stop being such a sensitive suzy.

You seem to be implying a level of sensitivity that I do not actually feel.

I am merely noting a theme I see in Christianity. It is not all Christians. It is not all groups within Christians. It is not all the time. Some seem to be more prone to it than others. But to deny it exists...? That strikes me as pure ostrich material. Anger, vindictiveness, and sarcasm are common in many segments of Christianity - and in many who call themselves Christian. If you believe otherwise, so be it. If that is the case, I think you're in denial.

My $.02 - which will get you almost nothing at your local convenience store these days!

[Cow Poke]

I could easily see damage to reputations even if the accusations are disproven.

There will always be a cloud.

[oxmixmudd]

I absolutely can, and frankly I find it disgusting when people don't. A entire family is not responsible for the actions of a single member. People who conflate one person with their family are just being ridiculous and I find it pathetic that US conservatives do it so often, especially when they are accused of a crime and want to evade personal responsibility.

There is plenty of evidence Kavanaugh lied multiple times throughout his hearing today. His college acquaintances are attesting he lied about his degree of drinking, and that he lied about the meaning of 3 out of 4 terms in his yearbook.

When a person is accused, all in his circle suffer. They suffer from the stress of seeing a loved one they believe is innocent suffer. They suffer the loss of their own good name by association (that is the simple reality whether you can acknowledge it or not). They suffer whatever financial loss comes due to the cost of defending that person.

This is the cost of the mistaken identity, or the lie, depending on whichever side might be lying. And it is sad. And if Kavanaugh is innocent it moves from sad to a tragedy. (likewise if Kavanaugh or Ford is lying). The truth is this is a tradgedy for at least one side in this thing, and maybe both sides.

Secondarily, the issue of being 'dragged through the mud' has nothing to do with them being responsible, anymore than the people that died on the Titanic were responsible for the mistakes that sank it. But they all still suffered because of those mistakes. Just as Kavanaugh's family is suffering because of this. Just as Ford and her family are suffering because of this.

Ideally, this accusation would have been investigated privately, and both sides would have agreed to wait for the outcome of the investigation before proceeding. If there was sufficient evidence to affect confirmation found, THEN it could have been brought forward and neither Ford nor Kavanaugh nor their families would have needed to have suffered needlessly over what either wasn't true or what could not have been proven.

But this would have required decency and fairness on both sides of the isle. And under this president, and in the current 'the other guys are demons' mindset on all sides, decency and fairness are mostly simply lost causes. Hatred and arrogance and nastiness are the rule of the day.


Jim

[Cow Poke]

You seem to be implying a level of sensitivity that I do not actually feel.

On purpose.

I am merely noting a theme I see in Christianity. It is not all Christians. It is not all groups within Christians. It is not all the time. Some seem to be more prone to it than others. But to deny it exists...?

Deny what exists?

That strikes me as pure ostrich material. Anger, vindictiveness, and sarcasm are common in many segments of Christianity - and in many who call themselves Christian. If you believe otherwise, so be it. If that is the case, I think you're in denial.

And I think you see "anger" and "vindictiveness" where it doesn't exist. Sarcasm is not the same as, or indicative of, anger and vindictiveness.

And I deny I'm in denial!

My $.02 - which will get you almost nothing at your local convenience store these days!

Grow thicker skin - that's my two bits.

[carpedm9587]

Carpe, we have a guy in our church who reminds me a lot of MM, or the other way around. He's an old guy (10 years older than me) who tends to be opinionated and "direct". It would be very easy to assume he's "angry", but a lot of his comments are, in fact, dry humor. There are times when I cringe when he weighs in on something, because he can be quite blunt. (His email address even includes the word "grumpy")

When we had the incident a couple years ago when a complete stranger needed a liver transplant (I had been made aware of this need, checked out the story, and decided our Church needed to help in some way) I made it known on a Sunday Morning that this family needed $9,800 just to get him in the hospital for a liver transplant.

It was this "angry man" who came to me after the Service and said, "tell that lady to get her husband in the hospital, I'll stop by the Church in the morning with a check". That Monday afternoon, I had the privilege of sitting down with the wife of the critically ill man and hand her a check for $10,000.

I would FAR RATHER interact with somebody who was direct, and you knew where he stood, than somebody who never seemed to be able to answer your questions, and leaves you guessing.

Just saying.

We have an old coot in our town that is much the same.

Frankly, this was an experiment. I find myself often on the receiving end of claims that I think or feel one way or another, and my responses that the person posting has not gotten it right are usually met with some variation of "I don't believe you." I was curious to see what the reaction would be if the foot was in the other shoe. Amazingly, people don't seem to like to be told how they feel and what they think. Apparently, unless they are the one doing it.

Not a lot of consistency there.

The reality is, I have no clue what MM, Sparko, Pix, or any of the others I listed actually feel. I cannot even claim to know a great deal about what they think. None of us do. Perhaps we could simply take people at their word now and again.

Just a thought.

However, the larger observation of there being a "vein of anger" in Christianity - that I stand by. It is fairly obvious. But to target any one person, especially when the only interaction is online posting, is not justified - as you note.

[Cow Poke]

Frankly, this was an experiment.

Sure it was.

[Cow Poke]

Sounds like Jeff Flake is a yes vote.

[Starlight]

are you serious? Having her husband being believed to be a rapist by congress and much of the country doesn't affect Kavanaugh's wife? or his daughter?

I wonder if the US conservative pathology of connecting everything to people's family makes this a self-fulfilling prophesy... If you / people in your circles subsequently think of her as defined by her relationship to her husband who's believed to be a rapist, rather than viewing her as an independent being to be judged on her own merits only, then such accusations affect her precisely because you've made them color her in your minds. She is thus socially tarred with the 'shame' of having him as her husband and is judged by people like you for it and thus is affected by it...

the Kavanaugh's will be ostracized from a lot of society wherever they go, for years.

...just as I said.

It all strikes me as an extremely old fashioned / pretty pathetic view where the whole family shares a single 'reputation' which can be improved or worsen by individual members of the family but which affects all in the public eye. I kind of thought such views had been left behind centuries ago, but perhaps they are still kicking in conservative parts of the US.

[Sparko]

Were you listening to an imaginary hearing? The President is the one who needs to request an investigation.

GRASSLEY: Before I go to Senator Hatch, since this FBI thing keeps coming up all the time, let’s get back to basics. First of all, anybody, including any senator that’s brought up this issue, could ask for an FBI investigation. What the FBI does is gather information for the White House, then the file’s sent to the committee for us to make our own evaluations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.92908e7d5cd5

[Cow Poke]

Blumenthall is trying to get the committee to subpoena Mark Judge, and to interview the "other survivors". Sheeeeeesh. Judge has already stated he will not be testifying.