Time To Smear Kavanaugh's Good Name...

[Mountain Man]

yep. When they kept pressuring Kavanaugh to request an FBI investigation he said why? He and Ford were already there being questioned, and Durbin said they needed to investigate the other people.

Maybe they thought the FBI would be like a detective in a television drama who grills the suspect until he is cleverly tricked into confessing.

[Mountain Man]

During the hearing, Ford cruelly implied that her life-long friend Leland Keyser couldn't remember the party or the assault because of Keyser's ongoing health problems. Apparently Keyser and her family are taking it about as well as you'd expect

https://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ser-under-bus/

[oxmixmudd]

That's not working so well for Kavanaugh. He has a great reputation and many friends to defend him and he even has HER witnesses defending him.

The burden should be the accusers, not the accused.

Well yes. He was a drunk and party animal in high school and college. There have been multiple witnesses to that fact. Several has testified that he becomes belligerent when drunk. Ergo it is very possible an incident like the one described could have happened and he either doesn't remember it or isn't admitting it.

To rely on a reputation, one is counting on the fact that one's history and reputation would say the type of behavior required was completely out of character. Well, in high school and college that sort if behavior was IN character when he was very drunk. And that is why his reputation AFTER college and high school isn't much help.

Nevertheless, that is my answer. That is the only answer there is in a he said/she said where you can't produce an alibi.

I'm really not sure you or MM's point beyond that. Does the fact a man is vulnerable to attack in this area mean that it is impossible her accusation is true? Statistics are that false accusations of this sort are relatively rare. But it most certainly does happen.

OTOH, sadly, assaults of this sort are not in fact nearly so rare. And so the fact is, the percentage of men accused of assault that are shown to be guilty is in fact larger that the percentage of women that accuse and are lying.

Percent false report : between 2 and 7%
Percent not reported at all: 2 out of 3 (63%)

https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics

In addition, as many as 1 in 5 women over their lifetime will be sexually assaulted. As compared to 1 in 71 men.

The reality is, the odds are very much in Ford's favor. At this point we can't know, but we definitely, if we are going to pick a side without knowing, would be more likely to be correct if we picked Ford's side. Not that I'm suggesting picking a side.


Jim

[Cow Poke]

Well yes. He was a drunk and party animal in high school and college. There have been multiple witnesses to that fact. Several has testified that he becomes belligerent when drunk. Ergo it is very possible an incident like the one described could have happened and he either doesn't remember it or isn't admitting it.

To rely on a reputation, one is counting on the fact that one's history and reputation would say the type of behavior required was completely out of character. Well, in high school and college that sort if behavior was IN character when he was very drunk. And that is why his reputation AFTER college and high school isn't much help.

Nevertheless, that is my answer. That is the only answer there is in a he said/she said where you can't produce an alibi.

I'm really not sure you or MM's point beyond that. Does the fact a man is vulnerable to attack in this area mean that it is impossible her accusation is true? Statistics are that false accusations of this sort are relatively rare. But it most certainly does happen.

OTOH, sadly, assaults of this sort are not in fact nearly so rare. And so the fact is, the percentage of men accused of assault that are shown to be guilty is in fact larger that the percentage of women that accuse and are lying.

Percent false report : between 2 and 7%
Percent not reported at all: 2 out of 3 (63%)

https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics

In addition, as many as 1 in 5 women over their lifetime will be sexually assaulted. As compared to 1 in 71 men.

The reality is, the odds are very much in Ford's favor. At this point we can't know, but we definitely, if we are going to pick a side without knowing, would be more likely to be correct if we picked Ford's side. Not that I'm suggesting picking a side.


Jim

And that, my friends, is why I abide by the Billy Graham rule.

[Cow Poke]

One of my infamous asides....


I was once accused of having an affair with a young woman named Kendall in our congregation. An older woman who lived down the street started the rumor that this young woman's car was often seen at my house for hours on end while my wife's car was not there.

As it turned out, this young woman and my wife were in business together, so Kendall would come park at our house, then ride with my wife to the various venues where they were doing event planning.

Kendall's husband, Bobby, sang in our choir, and was always right behind me when I was preaching. When he heard about this, he came to me and said.... "I have an idea -- next Sunday, you stand in the pulpit and tell the congregation you want to confess that you were, indeed, having an affair, but it wasn't with Kendall --- it was with ME!" He said, he would then step out of the choir and stand beside me and we could stand there hugging it out.

Yeah, no.

[Mountain Man]

Well yes. He was a drunk and party animal in high school and college. There have been multiple witnesses to that fact. Several has testified that he becomes belligerent when drunk. Ergo it is very possible an incident like the one described could have happened and he either doesn't remember it or isn't admitting it.

To rely on a reputation, one is counting on the fact that one's history and reputation would say the type of behavior required was completely out of character. Well, in high school and college that sort if behavior was IN character when he was very drunk. And that is why his reputation AFTER college and high school isn't much help.

Nevertheless, that is my answer. That is the only answer there is in a he said/she said where you can't produce an alibi.

I'm really not sure you or MM's point beyond that. Does the fact a man is vulnerable to attack in this area mean that it is impossible her accusation is true? Statistics are that false accusations of this sort are relatively rare. But it most certainly does happen.

OTOH, sadly, assaults of this sort are not in fact nearly so rare. And so the fact is, the percentage of men accused of assault that are shown to be guilty is in fact larger that the percentage of women that accuse and are lying.

Percent false report : between 2 and 7%
Percent not reported at all: 2 out of 3 (63%)

https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics

In addition, as many as 1 in 5 women over their lifetime will be sexually assaulted. As compared to 1 in 71 men.

The reality is, the odds are very much in Ford's favor. At this point we can't know, but we definitely, if we are going to pick a side without knowing, would be more likely to be correct if we picked Ford's side. Not that I'm suggesting picking a side.


Jim

I've said multiple times that justice is not dispensed based on probability but on the evidence. Not only is there no evidence to support Ford's accusation, the evidence that does exist contradicts her, including her own shifting narrative to her therapist, in her letter, and finally in her testimony.

Based on the EVIDENCE, not only can we reasonably conclude that her accusation is false but that she knows it's false.

[lilpixieofterror]

I've said multiple times that justice is not dispensed based on probability but on the evidence. Not only is there no evidence to support Ford's accusation, the evidence that does exist contradicts her, including her own shifting narrative to her therapist, in her letter, and finally in her testimony.

Based on the EVIDENCE, not only can we reasonably conclude that her accusation is false but that she knows it's false.

[oxmixmudd]

But back then the police could have investigate her claims, talked to the people involved. even examined Ford for any physical signs like bruising. Gone to the house where it happened. So yeah I am criticizing her for not mentioning it back then and then not for 30 years.

Yes - if they believed her they could have. Sparko, what you are doing here is ignoring the fact that when a women reports an assault they go through hell trying to prove it (you do realize that DNA testing was first used in 1986, AFTER this event? Proving the identity of the assaulter in this time frame was not easy). If a women knows that no-one witnessed the assault and there just isn't much of anything to prove it, they don't believe what they would endure making the accusation is worth it.

Not to mention - are you aware of what the average self-esteem level of a 15 year old girl is?

The reality is, 2/3 of sexual assault cases are never reported. That is the fact. For there to be that high a percentage, obviously there is a significant cultural pressure against it. Your comment implicitly assumes the attack happened, then blames Ford for not reporting it, in a society where there is not much support for girls to report such things - especially 35 years ago.

How would you like it if some girl from your high school who you don't even remember accused you of such a thing? It could happen. What if she really believes it? Does that make it true? She could still potentially ruin your life and family. Don't you think the burden of proof should be on her and not on you?

I wouldn't like it at all. But what is implied by your question is that in order to protect 2 to 7% of the men falsely accused of sexual assault we should ignore the 93 to 98% of women that are assaulted unless they have irrefutable proof. Unfortunately, unless actually raped where biological material is left behind, or the attack was violent enough to leave bruises (she fought back forcefully), there isn't much evidence in many of the cases. Less so in the early '80s.

And when there is, then the burden of proof is to show the women wasn't a consenting participant that got cold feet (which also happens.)

Our culture, our way of life, our constant exposure to and glorification of sex,sex,sex puts all of us at risk. So we all just have to be very careful. I just don't hang out with women I don't know very well, or I have my wife with me. I don't make any sort of potentially offensive comments or jokes. I don't joke around with anyone in these areas anymore. It's just the cost of living in a screwed up society when it comes to sexual behaviors.


Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

Well yes. He was a drunk and party animal in high school and college. There have been multiple witnesses to that fact. Several has testified that he becomes belligerent when drunk. Ergo it is very possible an incident like the one described could have happened and he either doesn't remember it or isn't admitting it.

To rely on a reputation, one is counting on the fact that one's history and reputation would say the type of behavior required was completely out of character. Well, in high school and college that sort if behavior was IN character when he was very drunk. And that is why his reputation AFTER college and high school isn't much help.

Nevertheless, that is my answer. That is the only answer there is in a he said/she said where you can't produce an alibi.

I'm really not sure you or MM's point beyond that. Does the fact a man is vulnerable to attack in this area mean that it is impossible her accusation is true? Statistics are that false accusations of this sort are relatively rare. But it most certainly does happen.

OTOH, sadly, assaults of this sort are not in fact nearly so rare. And so the fact is, the percentage of men accused of assault that are shown to be guilty is in fact larger that the percentage of women that accuse and are lying.

Percent false report : between 2 and 7%
Percent not reported at all: 2 out of 3 (63%)

https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics

In addition, as many as 1 in 5 women over their lifetime will be sexually assaulted. As compared to 1 in 71 men.

The reality is, the odds are very much in Ford's favor. At this point we can't know, but we definitely, if we are going to pick a side without knowing, would be more likely to be correct if we picked Ford's side. Not that I'm suggesting picking a side.


Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

And that, my friends, is why I abide by the Billy Graham rule.

[oxmixmudd]

I've said multiple times that justice is not dispensed based on probability but on the evidence. Not only is there no evidence to support Ford's accusation, the evidence that does exist contradicts her, including her own shifting narrative to her therapist, in her letter, and finally in her testimony.

Based on the EVIDENCE, not only can we reasonably conclude that her accusation is false but that she knows it's false.

That is just so completely wrong. There is not enough evidence to know anything about the truth or falsity of her claim. And you conveniently ignore the fact Kavanaugh is lying about who he was in high school and college as relates to the sorts of behavior that would produce such an event.

The only rational answer here is we don't know. The only moral answer is we don't know. To chose anything else is just ... wrong.



Jim

[Psychic Missile]

usually by reporting it to the police when it happens so they can take a rape kit and investigate it, not keeping it secret for 30 years then making an accusation when nothing can be proved.

in America you can't just accuse someone of a crime without proof. That's how it works.

Getting a rape kit done is certainly ideal, but it is both ignorant and cruel to expect all rape victims to never bring to light the crimes of their rapists unless they think to get one done and are able. The MeToo movement was spurred by accusations without proof from many years ago. Should that not have happened? Should Larry Nassar still be molesting children?

In America you notify the government that someone has committed a crime and the government investigates.

[lilpixieofterror]

Getting a rape kit done is certainly ideal, but it is both ignorant and cruel to expect all rape victims to never bring to light the crimes of their rapists unless they think to get one done and are able.

In America you notify the government that someone has committed a crime and the government investigates.

And if no guilt can be established, do you keep searching until you find something?

[Mountain Man]

That is just so completely wrong. There is not enough evidence to know anything about the truth or falsity of her claim. And you conveniently ignore the fact Kavanaugh is lying about who he was in high school and college as relates to the sorts of behavior that would produce such an event.

The only rational answer here is we don't know. The only moral answer is we don't know. To chose anything else is just ... wrong.



Jim

So the fact that she couldn't keep her own story straight (was it 1, 2, or 4 guys that attacked her?), that her own witnesses refuted her, that she lied about being afraid of flying, that she lied about when and why she added a second door to her house, and so on, means nothing to you?

And, no, Kavanaugh did not lie about who he was I'm high school. He openly admitted that he liked to party. That doesn't make him a rapist.

[Psychic Missile]

And if no guilt can be established, do you keep searching until you find something?

Should rape victims and their allies not try hard to stop criminals from prospering?