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John McCain

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  • #16
    Here's a goofy little anecdote:

    When I was a kid and first saw "R.I.P.," I had no idea what it stood for. I learned that it was spoken in the context of the deceased, and I thought it was really weird that somebody would say, for example, "Rip Bob," when Bob had passed away. Even when I learned that it stood for Rest In Peace I could never quite get rid of the association with "Rip [name]," which is why I can't bring myself to say it.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
      Here's a goofy little anecdote:

      When I was a kid and first saw "R.I.P.," I had no idea what it stood for. I learned that it was spoken in the context of the deceased, and I thought it was really weird that somebody would say, for example, "Rip Bob," when Bob had passed away. Even when I learned that it stood for Rest In Peace I could never quite get rid of the association with "Rip [name]," which is why I can't bring myself to say it.
      Actually, it stands for "Requiescat in Pace".
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #18
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        Actually, it stands for "Requiescat in Pace".
        smartybritches
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Let's just put it this way: There's a reason John McCain was a Republican that Democrats loved.

          And if you know anything about his military history, you'll know that he wasn't exactly the "war hero" that some -- including McCain himself -- made him out to be. It's worth noting that he had his service records sealed when he entered politics, so what we know about him is based largely on reports of others who served with him. It's certainly worth asking why McCain would declare his service record off-limits. What was he trying to hide?

          In the interest of not turning this into a thread criticizing a dead man, I'll say no more. I don't know who he was spiritually, but I hope he is now walking with his Savior in paradise.
          As best I can tell, McCain's military records were released in 2008 when he was running for president, as the result of a FOIA request.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
            There could be few comments on him around here for any of a number of reasons...I don't know why the negative speculation is called for.

            Here's a question: how many people typically post in the Memorial Garden threads? Just at a glance, the only thread in the first page of Memorial Garden threads that goes for more than a page is for Billy Graham.

            Here's another question: why didn't you comment, carpe? Other than to speculate on why nobody else did.
            Comment on...?
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #21
              Religion for McCain was a personal matter; he was reluctant to discuss it (which led to one somewhat widely circulated article a few years ago arguing that his only personal religious beliefs were his patriotism, but I can't link to it because of language).
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                Religion for McCain was a personal matter; he was reluctant to discuss it (which led to one somewhat widely circulated article a few years ago arguing that his only personal religious beliefs were his patriotism, but I can't link to it because of language).
                Which is why, on that, I remain silent.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Religion for McCain was a personal matter; he was reluctant to discuss it (which led to one somewhat widely circulated article a few years ago arguing that his only personal religious beliefs were his patriotism, but I can't link to it because of language).
                  Problematic hearsay without a source directly citing McCain concerning what McCain believed.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    There have been many erroneous reports of outrageous accusations against McCain based on unoffical references including that he was responsible for the carrier fire that killed more than one hundred military personnel. The following is from the official Navy Investigation.

                    Source: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-mccain-fire-uss-forrestal/



                    There are no eyewitness accounts in the official record supporting that version of events, however. According to the U.S. Navy’s exhaustive investigation into the incident, the findings of which are summarized below in an excerpt from an article by Commander Hank Stewart, USN (Ret.), a naval engineer, the fire was actually caused by the accidental firing of an Mk-32 “Zuni” rocket as a result of an electrical power surge during preparations for a strike against a target in North Vietnam:

                    Several of the planes started their engines in preparation for launching. Without warning, a rocket was accidentally fired from an F-4 Phantom jet fighter. The rocket struck and ripped open an A-4 Skyhawk on the other side of the flight deck. The rocket passed through the aircraft without exploding and hit the ocean. However, several hundred gallons of jet fuel poured from the Skyhawk’s punctured fuel tank and was ignited by burning rocket fuel left on the flight deck. Burning fuel was spread by the heavy winds across the flight deck and covered several more planes. Within seconds, these aircraft began burning, and the fire continued to spread. The ship immediately sounded general quarters (sending the crew to their battle stations), and an announcement notified the crew of the fire on the flight deck. The heat of the fire exploded a bomb on the flight deck approximately 90 seconds after the fire began, and a second bomb exploded a few seconds later. These explosions severely damaged the carrier and killed several Sailors on the flight deck. The fuel tanks of other planes ruptured, adding to the intensity of the blaze. The exploding bombs also created several holes in the flight deck, spilling burning jet fuel into the ship and allowing fire and smoke to spread inside the ship.

                    Forrestal’s crew battled and eventually extinguished the fire, with assistance from other Navy ships in the area. It took more than 24 hours to extinguish the fires below the flight deck. The losses caused by this incident were high and included 134 Sailors killed by the fire, and 161 injured. More than 20 aircraft were destroyed. The damage forced Forrestal to suspend combat operations and conduct temporary repairs in the Philippines before returning to the U.S. for permanent repair. Repairs to the ship cost approximately $72 million (equal to more than $528 million in 2017 dollars), and took approximately two years to complete.

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    There are no official Navy reports accusing John McCain of starting the fire by 'wet starting his jet, but . . .

                    Source: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-mccain-fire-uss-forrestal/


                    Beginning in August 2017 and well into the fall, a series of pro-Trump fake news web sites took aim at the reputation of Trump administration critic Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) by regurgitating an old, fabricated account of what caused a catastrophic fire aboard the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in 1967. The naval disaster killed 134 sailors and injured 161—one of those survivors was McCain himself, who sustained minor injuries.

                    The web sites, several of which also defamed McCain as having been “a ‘rat’ or ‘stoolie’” during his five-and-a-half years of captivity as a POW in North Vietnam, laid out details claiming McCain was “personally responsible” for the deadly conflagration on the deck of the Forrestal.

                    For example, Liberty Today (LibertyInfo.net) reported on 18 October 2017:

                    The Navy released John McCain’s military record after a Freedom of Information Act request from the Associated Press. The record is packed with information on McCain’s medals and commendations but little else. The one thing that the McCain campaign does not want to see released is the record of McCain’s antics on board the USS Forestal in 1967. McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded trumps McCain’s record as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.

                    WMR has learned additional details regarding the deadly fire aboard the Navy aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, on July 19, 1967 in the Gulf of Tonkin. The additional details point to then-Lt. Commander John McCain playing more of a role in triggering the fire and explosions than previously reported.

                    WMR has been informed that crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately “wet-started” his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. “Wet-starts”, done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.

                    In McCain’s case, the “wet-start” apparently “cooked off” and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. “Wet starting” was apparently a common practice among young “hot-dog” pilots.

                    Copied word-for-word from a blog post originally published in 2008, the text is an unholy mixture of inaccuracies and outright lies. For starters, the Associated Press’ FOIA that the post references actually revealed a slew of the military’s top awards and commendations. The post also asserts that “27 died” in the fire (there were 134 fatalities, in point of fact) and that the incident occurred on 19 July 1967 (it actually took place on 29 July). It further asserts that eyewitnesses and investigators evinced the belief that the explosion and fire were caused by McCain showing off by “wet-starting” his A-4 Skyhawk aircraft. (In pilot lingo, “wet-starting” a jet engine refers to flooding its combustion chamber with extra fuel before ignition, which usually results in a loud bang and/or plume of flame on start-up.)

                    © Copyright Original Source

                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-16-2018, 07:27 PM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      There have been many erroneous reports of outrageous accusations against McCain based on unoffical references including that he was responsible for the carrier fire that killed more than one hundred military personnel. The following is from the official Navy Investigation.
                      The only part that seems somewhat confusing was that the Navy's report indicated the Zuni rocket actually hit the plane next to McCain's, where McCain reported it "ripped his plane apart". From what I can tell (and probably in the info you listed) it's possible the Zuni hit both planes.

                      Personally, I don't think there's much to this allegation, and Captain McCain is no longer here to answer questions.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        The only part that seems somewhat confusing was that the Navy's report indicated the Zuni rocket actually hit the plane next to McCain's, where McCain reported it "ripped his plane apart". From what I can tell (and probably in the info you listed) it's possible the Zuni hit both planes.
                        In reviewing the different reports of NAVY official sources there is no such report as this.

                        Personally, I don't think there's much to this allegation, and Captain McCain is no longer here to answer questions.
                        That is severe problem of those slandering McCain after his passing with unofficial hearsay sources, and McCain is not here to respond.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          In reviewing the different reports of NAVY official sources there is no such report as this.
                          That you didn't see it does not mean "there is no such report as this". For crying out loud, ya big lunk, I am AGREEING that it's not credible!

                          That is severe problem of those slandering McCain after his passing with unofficial hearsay sources, and McCain is not here to respond.
                          Sometimes I think you're dumber than a bucket of snot. I said "Personally, I don't think there's much to this allegation..."
                          Last edited by Cow Poke; 09-17-2018, 09:42 AM.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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