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Thread: Do you believe Judas Iscariot eat the Eucharist?

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Do you believe Judas Iscariot eat the Eucharist?

    Do you or do you know believe Judas Iscariot eat the supper of the New Covenant?

    I do, see Luke 22:20-22, ". . . Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the New Covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth Me is with Me on the table. . . ."
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Has anybody claimed he did not?
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  3. Amen Cow Poke, mossrose, Jedidiah, Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    I believe what the Good Book say.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

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    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    I could raise a question about the chronological order of the events during the Last Supper.

    According to the Talmud, Tractate Pesachim, the taking of a piece of the lamb along with the bitter herb and a piece of matzo was to precede the meal. Rabbi Hill believed all three were supposed to be simultaneous, so he developed the "Hillel Sandwich", the lamb and bitter herb wrapped in a piece of matzo (which was then flexible, much like pita bread), dipped in charoset sauce. Commentaries suggest this was the "sop" or "morsel" to which Jesus referred to in John 13:26-28. Once that was done, the requirements of the Law had been accomplished. John suggests that at this time Judas left.

    Dipping into the bowl, as mentioned in Matthew 26:23-25, appears to be when the morsel was dipped into the bowl of charoset, again suggesting the legal requirements which precede the actual meal. At this point Jesus confronted Judas face to face, as we see in Matthew 26:25. At this point Judas is no longer mentioned at the Last Supper. Mark is a little vague, only that Jesus announced before the meal that somebody would betray Him. (Mark 14:21)

    The actual meal followed, at which time it appears from John's Gospel that Judas had already left to betray Jesus to the religious leaders.

    An additional taking of the last two (out of four) cups of wine with additional matzo was to take place after the main meal. It seems that this was the actual moment where Jesus related the cup and the matzo to His blood and body. If that is the case, then Judas would have already been gone taking care of business.

    But the Chronology in Luke raises an issue, in which he appears to place the symbolic act of the blood and the body of Christ before the seder and before Jesus announces His betrayal. Luke's chronology didn't exactly fit the Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Pesachim, folio 99b-103b. But then again, Jesus didn't necessarily care for the rituals of the Pharisees.

    So how do we define the Last Supper: The seder, the meal or the symbolism that Jesus gave to the elements at the end?

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Has anybody claimed he did not?
    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    I could raise a question about the chronological order of the events during the Last Supper.

    According to the Talmud, Tractate Pesachim, the taking of a piece of the lamb along with the bitter herb and a piece of matzo was to precede the meal. Rabbi Hill believed all three were supposed to be simultaneous, so he developed the "Hillel Sandwich", the lamb and bitter herb wrapped in a piece of matzo (which was then flexible, much like pita bread), dipped in charoset sauce. Commentaries suggest this was the "sop" or "morsel" to which Jesus referred to in John 13:26-28. Once that was done, the requirements of the Law had been accomplished. John suggests that at this time Judas left.

    Dipping into the bowl, as mentioned in Matthew 26:23-25, appears to be when the morsel was dipped into the bowl of charoset, again suggesting the legal requirements which precede the actual meal. At this point Jesus confronted Judas face to face, as we see in Matthew 26:25. At this point Judas is no longer mentioned at the Last Supper. Mark is a little vague, only that Jesus announced before the meal that somebody would betray Him. (Mark 14:21)

    The actual meal followed, at which time it appears from John's Gospel that Judas had already left to betray Jesus to the religious leaders.

    An additional taking of the last two (out of four) cups of wine with additional matzo was to take place after the main meal. It seems that this was the actual moment where Jesus related the cup and the matzo to His blood and body. If that is the case, then Judas would have already been gone taking care of business.

    But the Chronology in Luke raises an issue, in which he appears to place the symbolic act of the blood and the body of Christ before the seder and before Jesus announces His betrayal. Luke's chronology didn't exactly fit the Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Pesachim, folio 99b-103b. But then again, Jesus didn't necessarily care for the rituals of the Pharisees.

    So how do we define the Last Supper: The seder, the meal or the symbolism that Jesus gave to the elements at the end?
    Tradition and most gospel harmonies have Judas not eating the supper.

    The gospel harmonies conflate two things Jesus said regarding His betrayer.
    Matthew & Mark record what Jesus said before the institution of the supper where He says, "He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, . . ." with what John records Jesus to have said after its institution, ". . . to whom I shall give a sop, . . ."

    Dipping one's hand in a dish is not the same thing as being given the sop. One event was before and the other event after the institution of the observance. .

    [Matthew 26:23; Mark 14:20] with [John 13:26]. Now Luke wrote chronologically [Luke 1:3; Luke 22:19-21].
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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