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Change Water into Wine

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  • Change Water into Wine

    So, is there a way to add some stuff to plain water and make good wine quickly? Just curious. Grape kool aid with a little ethanol? I'm not a fan of ethanol, but am curious as to any miracles that we can replicate with science. After all, there are some ideas that miracles are merely God accomplishing acts we just don't have the knowledge and power to do. Turning water into wine shouldn't be that hard. It just usually takes a long time and involves a grape vine and yeast.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    So, is there a way to add some stuff to plain water and make good wine quickly?
    No. You could make ersatz wine by mixing Everclear with grape juice, but it would not be good wine.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
      So, is there a way to add some stuff to plain water and make good wine quickly? Just curious. Grape kool aid with a little ethanol? I'm not a fan of ethanol, but am curious as to any miracles that we can replicate with science. After all, there are some ideas that miracles are merely God accomplishing acts we just don't have the knowledge and power to do. Turning water into wine shouldn't be that hard. It just usually takes a long time and involves a grape vine and yeast.
      The key here is good wine. And anything involving using Kool-Aid as part of the formula is guaranteed to preclude that

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
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      • #4
        Jesus made wine from grapes that never grew. Just like He made fish and bread out of creatures that never swam and grain that never grew.

        Anything we can attempt is pitiful and impossible in comparison.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          The key here is good wine. And anything involving using Kool-Aid as part of the formula is guaranteed to preclude that
          Earlier this year my brother bought a couple lots at an estate sale which included two bottles of wine in one of them. When I was over he decided to open one of them and try it out. Neither of us are wine drinkers except for the occasional glass but I recommended that since they were the same he open the one with the scuffed and slightly stained label. It was a good bordeaux but nothing to, as they say, write home about.

          Now for the rest of the story. We really shoulda waited until after I did a bit of internet research. The wine was Château Latour 1982. I was able to estimate that the bottle we drank was worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $1400.

          Personally (again neither of us are much for wine) I wouldn't give $100 or even $50 for it so it was essentially wasted on us. He did sell the remaining bottle at auction in June or July (IIRC) at the Heritage auction house where it fetched something like $1200 so my guess was fairly accurate.

          This means that this year in a year's time I partook in a $12-1400 bottle of wine as well as handled a priceless book that I told some of you about.
          Last edited by rogue06; 09-18-2018, 05:08 PM.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #6
            Hey! I think there is a similar thread this needs to be merged with! Oops.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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            • #7
              Well, at least it is possible for a virgin to become pregnant. She just needs to take a trip to the fertility clinic! Don't know why some folks claim that the virgin birth is impossible...
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                Well, at least it is possible for a virgin to become pregnant. She just needs to take a trip to the fertility clinic! Don't know why some folks claim that the virgin birth is impossible...
                A virgin becoming pregnant now still requires a man someplace in the equation.

                Again, a poor substitute for what God did.


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                • #9
                  So... would that wine be considered natural or artificial?

                  And how does the distinction between natural and artificial make any sense? Beavers make dams, but that is considered natural. Honey is natural and corn syrup is artificial. God made the bees and God made us. Of course we know just enough to be a danger to our own well being....
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                    So, is there a way to add some stuff to plain water and make good wine quickly?
                    Yes - for some definitions of "good". See here, for example. They used to sell blocks of wine powder back in prohibition days, but it took a couple of weeks of fermenting to make wine, so may not be fast enough for you.

                    But there are other ways to "turn water into wine" that use sleight of hand and misdirection rather than chemical changes.
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                      So, is there a way to add some stuff to plain water and make good wine quickly? Just curious. Grape kool aid with a little ethanol? I'm not a fan of ethanol, but am curious as to any miracles that we can replicate with science. After all, there are some ideas that miracles are merely God accomplishing acts we just don't have the knowledge and power to do. Turning water into wine shouldn't be that hard. It just usually takes a long time and involves a grape vine and yeast.
                      if you are going to make wine by adding grape juice and alcohol why not just add wine and be done with it? You are not changing the water into anything, you are just watering down the wine.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                        So, is there a way to add some stuff to plain water and make good wine quickly? Just curious. Grape kool aid with a little ethanol? I'm not a fan of ethanol, but am curious as to any miracles that we can replicate with science. After all, there are some ideas that miracles are merely God accomplishing acts we just don't have the knowledge and power to do. Turning water into wine shouldn't be that hard. It just usually takes a long time and involves a grape vine and yeast.
                        Wine: The use of wine during the feast was to be expected. Although using the best wine first and the poorer quality later was not an established custom, it seemed like a logical thing to do. The best fermented wine contained 14% ethanol (C2H5OH; molecular weight=46).
                        Firkins: nine gallons, or 34.0 liters (34.0 kilograms). The pots contained about 25 gallons (94.5 liters) each.
                        Six waterpots of stone: Total of about 150 gallons (567 kg).
                        Molecular weight of oxygen: 15.994 914
                        Molecular weight of carbon: 12.000 000
                        Molecular weight of helium: 4.002 603

                        I figured this out somewhere years ago. It took the equivalent of the energy of 12 nuclear bombs the size of the one that hit Hiroshima in order to tear apart the oxygen atoms to form carbon atoms and alpha particles (helium) and combine them with hydrogen in order to form ethanol.
                        When I Survey....

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                        • #13
                          Wine in the New Testament would included newly juiced grapes [not pasteurized] which would be in some stage of fermentation. Good wine can be understood to be the freshest juice of grapes.

                          [John 2:1-11. Luke 22:18 the word for wine not used; Matthew 9:17.]
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            Good wine can be understood to be the freshest juice of grapes.

                            [John 2:1-11.]
                            No, it can't. It is necessarily fermented in this passage; otherwise, the notion of serving the good wine first so the guests won't notice/care about the lesser quality of the later-served wine makes no sense whatsoever.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              No, it can't. It is necessarily fermented in this passage; otherwise, the notion of serving the good wine first so the guests won't notice/care about the lesser quality of the later-served wine makes no sense whatsoever.
                              Wrong. The case was as people got intoxicated, the more fermented wine would be served. There is no reason Jesus could not have made the wine as fresh as from the vine. And Holy Jesus would not have provided a cause for the sin of drunkenness. The fact is wine would include juice from the grapes, hence the wine press.
                              Last edited by 37818; 09-19-2018, 04:01 PM.
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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