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Change Water into Wine

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    Hmm... don't know where I got the idea that wine had a higher content than beer...
    Wine is stronger normally. OBP is talking about special beers you can find in a liquor store but not just everywhere that sells beer and wine (depending on your local liquor laws). The beer I drink is 4-5% abv.

    "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
    "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
    Katniss Everdeen


    Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

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    • #32
      Oh! Didn't they dilute the wine back then? Sorta like using wine as an ancient water purifier. Probably not on purpose. Or did ancient peoples drink wine because the water made them sick?
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
        Wine is stronger normally. OBP is talking about special beers you can find in a liquor store but not just everywhere that sells beer and wine (depending on your local liquor laws). The beer I drink is 4-5% abv.
        Yeah, the beer I normally drink doesn't get much above 7%; the stronger beers are generally pricier, so I save those for special occasions.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          Oh! Didn't they dilute the wine back then? Sorta like using wine as an ancient water purifier. Probably not on purpose. Or did ancient peoples drink wine because the water made them sick?
          They didn't know why straight water made them sick, but they did know that mixing it with wine tended to make it safer. Mixing the wine with water also stretched the wine further.

          The early Americans, by the way, consumed prodigious quantities of alcohol - even the Puritans. And the Temperance movement was a liberal Christian enterprise; it's amazing that it somehow transmogrified into a conservative Christian position.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Oh! Didn't they dilute the wine back then? Sorta like using wine as an ancient water purifier. Probably not on purpose. Or did ancient peoples drink wine because the water made them sick?
            Y'hoshua was reading (on wiki, so take with a grain of salt) that before Greek invasion, the peoples of the ancient near east did not typically dilute their wine; it was a Hellenic custom. After Hellenic invasion, then yes, dilution happened more often. And if you had access to certain water sources, like a good well, then you didn't need to mix alcohol, but in the desert I imagine access to those water sources was rough. Dunno if dilution was something done when they served the "good stuff" during the first half of the wedding party (I imagine it almost certainly was by the time they brought out the worse stuff).

            "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
            "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
            Katniss Everdeen


            Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

            Comment


            • #36
              I've also heard somewhere(don't know where) that there were places to buy more wine if the wedding ran out, but it wouldn't have been as easy as going to the grocery store and buying the cheap wine. Jesus couldn't afford to buy the cheap stuff? Or He didn't want to?
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                I've also heard somewhere(don't know where) that there were places to buy more wine if the wedding ran out, but it wouldn't have been as easy as going to the grocery store and buying the cheap wine. Jesus couldn't afford to buy the cheap stuff? Or He didn't want to?
                More to the point, it would not have been nearly as quick as going to the grocery store. Money may well have also been a problem - it is implied by "the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head" that Jesus was wholly dependent on donations when he began to preach, as it seems that Joseph was already in the grave by this point.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
                  Y'hoshua was reading (on wiki, so take with a grain of salt) that before Greek invasion, the peoples of the ancient near east did not typically dilute their wine; it was a Hellenic custom. After Hellenic invasion, then yes, dilution happened more often. And if you had access to certain water sources, like a good well, then you didn't need to mix alcohol, but in the desert I imagine access to those water sources was rough. Dunno if dilution was something done when they served the "good stuff" during the first half of the wedding party (I imagine it almost certainly was by the time they brought out the worse stuff).
                  In Egypt adding water was referred to the Greek method since they typically didn't dilute their wine. FWIU wine in ancient times was a good deal stronger than what is typically seen today because they allowed the grapes to dry out which apparently increases sugar levels and employed long aging post fermentation processes that concentrated alcohol further.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                    I've also heard somewhere(don't know where) that there were places to buy more wine if the wedding ran out, but it wouldn't have been as easy as going to the grocery store and buying the cheap wine. Jesus couldn't afford to buy the cheap stuff? Or He didn't want to?
                    Time was likely a factor as they probably would have needed to go to a vineyard to purchase some rather than a store down the street.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                    • #40
                      Don't forget both Jesus and the disciples were accused of being drunkards. So yes, they drank alcoholic wines.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Don't forget both Jesus and the disciples were accused of being drunkards. So yes, they drank alcoholic wines.
                        It's not entirely clear who "they" refer to here. "Jesus and the disciples", or people in general in that time period?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                          It's not entirely clear who "they" refer to here. "Jesus and the disciples", or people in general in that time period?
                          Yes.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            It's not entirely clear who "they" refer to here. "Jesus and the disciples", or people in general in that time period?
                            both.

                            Matthew 11:19
                            The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

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