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Celebrated Australian atheist, political leader converts to Christianity at 85

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Although you are mocking, it is a fairly true statement. God doesn't care what causes you to believe the gospel, just that you do. For some it is logic. For some, preaching. For others tragedy. The means are many, but the result is the same: rejoicing in heaven.
    That god cares at all, of course, is only if god exists, otherwise the only god that cares is the imaginary one in your head. Most of us non-believers are such because we see the gospels as ridiculous nonsense writ in a time of obvious ignorance and extreme naivete.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      That god cares at all, of course, is only if god exists, otherwise the only god that cares is the imaginary one in your head. Most of us non-believers are such because we see the gospels as ridiculous nonsense writ in a time of obvious ignorance and extreme naivete.
      r/iamverysmart

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
        r/iamverysmart
        JimL's unintended irony is the gift that keeps on giving.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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        • #64
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          That god cares at all, of course, is only if god exists, otherwise the only god that cares is the imaginary one in your head. Most of us non-believers are such because we see the gospels as ridiculous nonsense writ in a time of obvious ignorance and extreme naivete.
          Then why are you here, then? We know what you think, so you can go now. Buh-bye.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
            Just because you think a reason is irrational doesn't mean it is.
            Of course. But neither is it rational just because someone else says it is.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
              Of course. But neither is it rational just because someone else says it is.
              So we are at impasse. Everyone is right and everyone is wrong.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Although you are mocking, it is a fairly true statement. God doesn't care what causes you to believe the gospel, just that you do.
                Thank you for your candor. I rarely encounter apologists who will admit that.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                  Thank you for your candor. I rarely encounter apologists who will admit that.
                  Correct, God will accept one who has the simple trusting faith of a child...
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                    Thank you for your candor. I rarely encounter apologists who will admit that.
                    Think of it like this: suppose you know of a bridge that is about to collapse and you want to keep people from crossing it. You spread the word and some people listen to you because they trust you, others because they check the bridge and it shows signs of collapse, and there are some who stay away from the bridge because they think it smells like dead fish. Does it matter that the village nuts stay away because they don't like the smell? They won't cross so their lives are saved. The bridge is really truly unsafe no matter what the reason people have for avoiding it.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      So we are at impasse.
                      Only if rationality is nothing more than a matter of personal judgment. I don't think it is. What else it could be, though, is something philosophers have been arguing about for as long as there have been philosophers.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Does it matter that the village nuts stay away because they don't like the smell?
                        Not in the immediate situation. But if they are routinely so oblivious to simple logic, the long-term consequences are unlikely to be what they will like.

                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        You spread the word and some people listen to you because they trust you
                        Whether they should or should not trust me depends on their reasons for trusting me.

                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        others because they check the bridge and it shows signs of collapse
                        Those are the most sensible ones. They now have a reason to believe that the bridge is unsafe that does not depend on one person's credibility.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                          Only if rationality is nothing more than a matter of personal judgment. I don't think it is. What else it could be, though, is something philosophers have been arguing about for as long as there have been philosophers.
                          Well we could use the laws of logic, but that would not bear on the question much. After all much of our faith revolves the personal inner witness of the Holy Spirit and not necessarily philosophical arguments, though they can be useful.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                            Not in the immediate situation. But if they are routinely so oblivious to simple logic, the long-term consequences are unlikely to be what they will like.

                            Whether they should or should not trust me depends on their reasons for trusting me.

                            Those are the most sensible ones. They now have a reason to believe that the bridge is unsafe that does not depend on one person's credibility.
                            agreed, those who check the information are the smartest. Because you never know if the bridge is really safe or not until you check. But in this analogy, the bridge IS unsafe, so even the irrational ones were saved which goes to my point that God doesn't really care how you come to believe in him, only that you do.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              agreed, those who check the information are the smartest. Because you never know if the bridge is really safe or not until you check. But in this analogy, the bridge IS unsafe, so even the irrational ones were saved which goes to my point that God doesn't really care how you come to believe in him, only that you do.
                              If the God you believe in does not care whether his followers exercise their reason properly but only that they come to certain conclusions, then I have to hope he is not real.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Well we could use the laws of logic, but that would not bear on the question much.
                                Logic alone will not tell us whether the conclusion of an argument is true. It can tell us whether the argument's premises actually provide a good reason to believe the conclusion, but it cannot answer the question "Do we need a good reason?"


                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                After all much of our faith revolves the personal inner witness of the Holy Spirit and not necessarily philosophical arguments, though they can be useful.
                                You may attribute your feeling of certainty to divine confirmation. I have no way of discerning whether you have gotten that confirmation.

                                Comment

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