Militant Atheism

[rogue06]

I think it's ginkgo biloba.

Gecko Bilbo? Sounds like the name of a bounty hunter on Star Wars.

[Cerebrum123]

Gecko Bilbo? Sounds like the name of a bounty hunter on Star Wars.

Or a Hobbit from LotR.

[rogue06]

Or a Hobbit from LotR.

Hobbits were bounty hunters on Tatooine?

[Cerebrum123]

Hobbits were bounty hunters on Tatooine?

No, but Bilbo Baggins was a Hobbit.

[carpedm9587]

Maybe you should take that gunko bambozo for your memory! (or whatever it's called, I forget)

[Cow Poke]

I think it's ginkgo biloba.

I want you to listen very closely -- I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ginkgo Biloba.....

[Cerebrum123]

I want you to listen very closely -- I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ginkgo Biloba.....

[Rushing Jaws]

is not the smallest evidence that [atheism]
And I think he is correct. That Soviet Communism was atheistic & bloody, is true. But that tells us nothing about any other atheists, many of whom are decent and moral people.

[Sparko]

is not the smallest evidence that [atheism]
And I think he is correct. That Soviet Communism was atheistic & bloody, is true. But that tells us nothing about any other atheists, many of whom are decent and moral people.

They are moral despite atheism, not because of it.

A consequence of atheism is there is no basis for morality other than some agreed upon standard that evolved over time in various societies. Killing someone just to get their stuff or because you are mad at them isn't objectively wrong, it is just that society has defined it is wrong. A society could have easily decided that doing that was perfectly fine and a great way to get ahead in the world (a.k.a. Klingons in Star Trek) - so there is no reason except convention to have any morals at all. If you want to kill someone for fun, there is nothing wrong with it if you don't get caught by society.

The reason people who are atheists DO have morals is because atheism is false. God has built a moral compass into our very being, even when they don't believe in him.

Romans 2:14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

[Rushing Jaws]

They are moral despite atheism, not because of it.

A consequence of atheism is there is no basis for morality other than some agreed upon standard that evolved over time in various societies.

Killing someone just to get their stuff or because you are mad at them isn't objectively wrong, it is just that society has defined it is wrong. A society could have easily decided that doing that was perfectly fine and a great way to get ahead in the world (a.k.a. Klingons in Star Trek) - so there is no reason except convention to have any morals at all. If you want to kill someone for fun, there is nothing wrong with it if you don't get caught by society.

The reason people who are atheists DO have morals is because atheism is false. God has built a moral compass into our very being, even when they don't believe in him.

Romans 2:14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

[Rushing Jaws]

[KingsGambit]

I don't find the Holodomor to be a good argument against atheism either and I cringe when Christians bring it up. As you say, there are plenty of counterexamples for atheists to bring up if we're playing the guilt by association game... and Stalin did it out of political selfishness, not specifically to glorify atheism.

[rogue06]

It isn't just the Soviets and the Holodomer. You have Stalin's purges (1.45 to 2 million killed) and Holodomor (a.k.a., Terror Famine with 3.3 to 7.5 million killed), Mao's Great Leap Forward (18 to 56 million killed) and Cultural Revolution (1.5 to 3 million killed^[1]), Pol Pot's Killing Fields (2 to 2.5 million killed) and North Korean concentration camps (1 to 1.5 million killed) and terror starvation campaign from 1993 to 2008 (up to 1 million killed). This is a bloody legacy in the extreme in less than a century's time since it has ever achieved control anywhere.








1. post-Mao leaders acknowledged that 100 million people, one-ninth of the entire population, suffered in one way or another.

[carpedm9587]

It isn't just the Soviets and the Holodomer. You have Stalin's purges (1.45 to 2 million killed) and Holodomor (a.k.a., Terror Famine with 3.3 to 7.5 million killed), Mao's Great Leap Forward (18 to 56 million killed) and Cultural Revolution (1.5 to 3 million killed^[1]), Pol Pot's Killing Fields (2 to 2.5 million killed) and North Korean concentration camps (1 to 1.5 million killed) and terror starvation campaign from 1993 to 2008 (up to 1 million killed). This is a bloody legacy in the extreme in less than a century's time since it has ever achieved control anywhere.

1. post-Mao leaders acknowledged that 100 million people, one-ninth of the entire population, suffered in one way or another.

The problem is, it's not a legacy of "atheism." Atheism was not the motivating force for any of these things, AFAIK. You have correlation - not causation. If you think you actually have causation, then by all means present the evidence/argument. Otherwise...

P.S. Not to mention that a lot of this is "fun with statistics."

[KingsGambit]

It isn't just the Soviets and the Holodomer. You have Stalin's purges (1.45 to 2 million killed) and Holodomor (a.k.a., Terror Famine with 3.3 to 7.5 million killed), Mao's Great Leap Forward (18 to 56 million killed) and Cultural Revolution (1.5 to 3 million killed^[1]), Pol Pot's Killing Fields (2 to 2.5 million killed) and North Korean concentration camps (1 to 1.5 million killed) and terror starvation campaign from 1993 to 2008 (up to 1 million killed). This is a bloody legacy in the extreme in less than a century's time since it has ever achieved control anywhere.








1. post-Mao leaders acknowledged that 100 million people, one-ninth of the entire population, suffered in one way or another.

Yes, and those all have one obvious thing in common, which isn't atheism.