Originally posted by Cerebrum123
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Militant Atheism
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostOr a Hobbit from LotR.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostMaybe you should take that gunko bambozo for your memory! (or whatever it's called, I forget)The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostI think it's ginkgo biloba.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Postis not the smallest evidence that [atheism]
And I think he is correct. That Soviet Communism was atheistic & bloody, is true. But that tells us nothing about any other atheists, many of whom are decent and moral people.
A consequence of atheism is there is no basis for morality other than some agreed upon standard that evolved over time in various societies. Killing someone just to get their stuff or because you are mad at them isn't objectively wrong, it is just that society has defined it is wrong. A society could have easily decided that doing that was perfectly fine and a great way to get ahead in the world (a.k.a. Klingons in Star Trek) - so there is no reason except convention to have any morals at all. If you want to kill someone for fun, there is nothing wrong with it if you don't get caught by society.
The reason people who are atheists DO have morals is because atheism is false. God has built a moral compass into our very being, even when they don't believe in him.
Romans 2:14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThey are moral despite atheism, not because of it.
A consequence of atheism is there is no basis for morality other than some agreed upon standard that evolved over time in various societies.Killing someone just to get their stuff or because you are mad at them isn't objectively wrong, it is just that society has defined it is wrong. A society could have easily decided that doing that was perfectly fine and a great way to get ahead in the world (a.k.a. Klingons in Star Trek) - so there is no reason except convention to have any morals at all. If you want to kill someone for fun, there is nothing wrong with it if you don't get caught by society.
The reason people who are atheists DO have morals is because atheism is false. God has built a moral compass into our very being, even when they don't believe in him.
Romans 2:14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
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I don't find the Holodomor to be a good argument against atheism either and I cringe when Christians bring it up. As you say, there are plenty of counterexamples for atheists to bring up if we're playing the guilt by association game... and Stalin did it out of political selfishness, not specifically to glorify atheism."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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It isn't just the Soviets and the Holodomer. You have Stalin's purges (1.45 to 2 million killed) and Holodomor (a.k.a., Terror Famine with 3.3 to 7.5 million killed), Mao's Great Leap Forward (18 to 56 million killed) and Cultural Revolution (1.5 to 3 million killed[1]), Pol Pot's Killing Fields (2 to 2.5 million killed) and North Korean concentration camps (1 to 1.5 million killed) and terror starvation campaign from 1993 to 2008 (up to 1 million killed). This is a bloody legacy in the extreme in less than a century's time since it has ever achieved control anywhere.
1. post-Mao leaders acknowledged that 100 million people, one-ninth of the entire population, suffered in one way or another.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt isn't just the Soviets and the Holodomer. You have Stalin's purges (1.45 to 2 million killed) and Holodomor (a.k.a., Terror Famine with 3.3 to 7.5 million killed), Mao's Great Leap Forward (18 to 56 million killed) and Cultural Revolution (1.5 to 3 million killed[1]), Pol Pot's Killing Fields (2 to 2.5 million killed) and North Korean concentration camps (1 to 1.5 million killed) and terror starvation campaign from 1993 to 2008 (up to 1 million killed). This is a bloody legacy in the extreme in less than a century's time since it has ever achieved control anywhere.
1. post-Mao leaders acknowledged that 100 million people, one-ninth of the entire population, suffered in one way or another.
P.S. Not to mention that a lot of this is "fun with statistics."The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt isn't just the Soviets and the Holodomer. You have Stalin's purges (1.45 to 2 million killed) and Holodomor (a.k.a., Terror Famine with 3.3 to 7.5 million killed), Mao's Great Leap Forward (18 to 56 million killed) and Cultural Revolution (1.5 to 3 million killed[1]), Pol Pot's Killing Fields (2 to 2.5 million killed) and North Korean concentration camps (1 to 1.5 million killed) and terror starvation campaign from 1993 to 2008 (up to 1 million killed). This is a bloody legacy in the extreme in less than a century's time since it has ever achieved control anywhere.
1. post-Mao leaders acknowledged that 100 million people, one-ninth of the entire population, suffered in one way or another."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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