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Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

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Should Babies With Disabilities Be Aborted?

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  • Should Babies With Disabilities Be Aborted?

    What makes life valuable?

    Link

    -----

    Who gets to live? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    Yesterday I saw on the Unbelievable forum on Facebook a post about abortion and if children with disabilities should be aborted. Naturally, autism showed up on the list. Seeing that, I knew I had to say something.

    Wanted to comment here. I'm a devout Christian, an apologist with my own ministry and podcast, a college graduate, and a moderator here. I don't say this in my capacity as a moderator but just to point out that I do what I can to contribute to the world.

    And oh yes. I'm on the autism spectrum. I have Aspergers. Not only am I on it, but my wife is on it as well. My wife of eight years that is.

    I am so thankful both of us were raised by Christian parents that never saw abortion as an option. I enjoy my life and I consider it a gift that I get to live life everyday. I realize we are high-functioning compared to others, but no one else really gets to determine if I will have joy in my life but me and no one else should decide for me if my life is or isn't worth living.

    I also don't really like the term birth defect. It's like those of us with a disability had something go wrong in manufacturing. Honestly, if a cure for Aspergers came out tomorrow, I wouldn't take it. My differences do cause me some handicaps, but they also give me an advantage in how I think many times. I happily accept who I am and enjoy it.

    I was told that wouldn't some be better if they didn't have a condition like spina bifida? In some ways, no doubt yes, but isn't this a slippery slope to be going down? We are the ones who will determine who can enjoy their life and who cannot? Do we think it's good to treat life in such a cheap way?

    Now of course, there are ways that you can live your life that are bad. No one is denying that. There is most anything wrong you can do with something that is good. Sadly, the very good news of the Gospel has often been used for evil.

    But if you want to see if something is good, you start with the something itself. Is life a good? Is it any wonder we have so many cases of suicide and such today when life is described in these terms? You can't be happy unless you have perfect health or look perfect or have the best career or have so much money in the bank?

    Nothing wrong with having any of those things. If you have them, give thanks. I know my wife gives thanks that she married a man who has such great good looks for example. (Yes. I know. If she reads this she will be rolling her eyes) Yet even if we have any of these things, if something happens to them at any time, does our life automatically become not worth living?

    It's interesting to me that so many people that have this position are atheists. Don't tell me there are no moral implications that can follow from atheism. To be fair, many atheists are staunchly pro-life. I am thankful for them. However, you can be a consistent atheist and be staunchly pro-abortion and that is a concern for me. I do not see how you can be a devout Christian and be pro-abortion or if you will, pro-choice. Sorry Chelsea Clinton, but your position is the one that is entirely out of lines with Christianity.

    From the womb to the tomb, life is sacred. Every human being regardless of power or money or fame has as much value to their life as the child just conceived in the womb. All of them equally partake of the Image of God. All of them are meant to reflect Him in some way and show who He is.

    Abortion is an evil. Let's stomp it out the best we can.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    I have a grandson who has a condition once called Aspergers now, if I understand correctly, called just high functioning autism. I do not see Josh as any less than any of my other grand kids. I have a slightly different view if autism than most. I see it as one extreme adaptation of the human condition. True it makes many things more difficult for those who are so are afflicted (I do not think of it as an affliction but words fail me here.) but so do many other normal adaptations people face. Should we abort (or kill later in life) those afflicted with intelligence short comings? What about extremely short people, or any other condition that handicaps individuals? If you had not shared it here I would not have guessed your condition. We are all different in so many ways why pick on just one difference? You might guess from this that I would answer no to the question asked by the OP - you would be right even if I did not see abortion an evil in and of itself..
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    • #3
      I have CHARGE syndrome. I like being alive! I don't have multisensory deficits, almost everyone else has super senses! Seriously, having a disability from birth means adjusting to it even better than if one became disabled later in life. Should we not help people with injuries that may prove permanent? The "abort disabled babies" comes off rather ableist to me..
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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      • #4
        People are supposed to love babies.
        sigpic

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        • #5
          I recently listened to an audiobook of essays written by Peter Singer. As you can imagine, he argued for abortion for people with various disabilities as the parent's choice. Yet, oddly enough, in one essay he mentioned meeting a fan of his who was a disabled lady in a wheelchair. She argued to him that her life was valuable and that she had been able to find happiness despite her obvious circumstances. I don't think he changed his mind, but he did mention that she made him rethink his position to a point. She was also an atheist like him.
          "Concentrate on what you have to do. Fix your eyes on it. Remind yourself that your task is to be a good human being; remind yourself what nature demands of people. Then do it, without hesitation, and speak the truth as you see it. But with kindness. With humility. Without hypocrisy."
          -Marcus Aurelius

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          • #6
            https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708806/quotes

            Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: So - guess if I had been conceived on your world, I wouldn't even be here now, would I?
            Hannah Bates: No.
            Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: No. I'd have been... terminated as a fertilized cell.
            Hannah Bates: It was the wish of our founders that no one have to suffer a life with disabilities.
            Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Who gave them the right to decide whether or not I should be here? Whether or not I might have something to contribute?
            That's what
            - She

            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
            - Stephen R. Donaldson

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708806/quotes

              Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: So - guess if I had been conceived on your world, I wouldn't even be here now, would I?
              Hannah Bates: No.
              Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: No. I'd have been... terminated as a fertilized cell.
              Hannah Bates: It was the wish of our founders that no one have to suffer a life with disabilities.
              Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Who gave them the right to decide whether or not I should be here? Whether or not I might have something to contribute?
              Does that culture murder anyone who becomes disabled later in life too?
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                Does that culture murder anyone who becomes disabled later in life too?
                They are working on it.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  They are working on it.
                  They will invoke Godwin's law if they do! If the Nazis were executed for war crimes, maybe we shouldn't do what war criminals do. Including mass murder.
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                    Does that culture murder anyone who becomes disabled later in life too?
                    It was a Star Trek episode called "The Masterpiece Society". The society was very much compared to the Nazis in the critiques of the episode.
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    - Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Speaking as one born deaf I'd say no.
                      Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                        Speaking as one born deaf I'd say no.
                        Didnt know you were deaf.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheWall View Post
                          Didnt know you were deaf.
                          I'm more open about it now. I had congenital rubuella which is almost unheard of now in the US. There is now a standard rule called TORCH that identifies prenatal conditions that recommends abortion as an "option". A positive test for rubella exposure means the exposed mother should consider abortion even if the baby's conditon is unknown. I kind of oppose that.
                          Last edited by DesertBerean; 09-27-2018, 11:38 AM.
                          Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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