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Red Letter Christianity

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  • Red Letter Christianity

    Recently, I made a comment in another thread about my perception that there is a vein of anger that exists within Christianity (like a vein in the body). I was (justly) taken to task for somewhat loose use of language. I intended the analogy to be "a vein is part of the body, but not all of it) But the analogy was flawed because a vein (it was pointed out) is a vital part of the body. And "within Christianity" is over-broad. It is not all aspects of Christianity. It is most notable in the American version of Christianity, and most specifically in the evangelical movement. But even that was not all that well received, possibly because we have a fairly significant evangelical contingent right here.

    I see this anger in the postings of many of the people here - and in many of the positions taken. I was fascinated, as a consequence, to listen to a podcast this morning (part of the Here and Now series) in which they interviewed Bob Golden. Bob Golden is a leader in the Red Letter Christian movement. If you are not familiar with it, it is an evangelical movement, but they have jettisoned the term "evangelical" because, as best I can tell, they have come to see that term as being badly poisoned by what they call "toxic Christianity." The observations of this man dovetail almost exactly with my observations and what prompted my original comment.

    If you are not familiar with Red Letter Christians, the name comes from the fact that, in many bibles, the words attributed to Jesus are printed in red letters. The movement seeks to call people back to the teachings attributed to Jesus, and is seriously concerned about the degree to which conventional Christain values are being jettisoned in the name of politics.

    I'm curious to know what people think of this movement. But I also wanted to offer it as a partial affirmation of what I had early (more poorly) said: something is just not right in huge swaths of the evangelical community. The broad support for Trump, silence (or even defense and praise) for his worst actions and words, is just not in keeping with many of the traditional core tenets of Christianity. The positions for big business and big money and against the poor, they seem inconsistent with "blessed are the poor," and the parable of the widow's mite.

    I found it heartening to know that a group like RLC exists, and is apparently getting traction. Maybe their message will be heard.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    Christians are sinners, Carpe, in various stages of development. You know this. There will be varying degrees of maturity. Personalities come into play.

    Further, you can't seriously think that a discussion board is an actual representation of what people are in real life. There are a number of people here who boldly attack me and my character, but I'd bet you a round of root beers these same people would be cowering little weenies if they met me in real life, and would never talk to me that way. Likewise, no doubt, there are a number of us who would not talk to other people like we do here.

    The non-Christians on the board are not here for the fellowship, Carpe. You've expressed your own reasons for being here, and I accept that. I don't really see you as in that same category, Like Tassman or JimL, or are only here (in my opinion) to vent their hostilities and attack Christianity.

    I'm probably more of a "red letter Christian" in real life, as I've looked through their website, and am doing a lot of those things they do. And when I encounter non-Christians, I'm not doing battle with them - I'm working to reach them for Jesus, and God has granted me successes in that arena on more than a few occasions.

    Let's start with that, cause I like you, even though you are so incredibly consistently wrong about everything on the planet.



    (CP is only kidding with that last line)
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Christians are sinners, Carpe, in various stages of development. You know this. There will be varying degrees of maturity. Personalities come into play.
      I would say that Christians are human...

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Further, you can't seriously think that a discussion board is an actual representation of what people are in real life. There are a number of people here who boldly attack me and my character, but I'd bet you a round of root beers these same people would be cowering little weenies if they met me in real life, and would never talk to me that way. Likewise, no doubt, there are a number of us who would not talk to other people like we do here.
      The observation goes beyond this message board, CP. It goes to evangelical Christianity in the U.S. in general. That Trump has such an enormous level of support from the evangelical community speaks volumes as to how morally compromised this movement has allowed itself to become. I'm sure that is not true of every evangelical in the country (as someone we all honor said, "some of them, I'm sure, are good people"), but when you have an 83% approval rating among evangelicals...and you are Trump...? Something is not right.

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      The non-Christians on the board are not here for the fellowship, Carpe. You've expressed your own reasons for being here, and I accept that. I don't really see you as in that same category, Like Tassman or JimL, or are only here (in my opinion) to vent their hostilities and attack Christianity.
      Anti-theists are far more common than true atheists...in my experience.

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I'm probably more of a "red letter Christian" in real life, as I've looked through their website, and am doing a lot of those things they do. And when I encounter non-Christians, I'm not doing battle with them - I'm working to reach them for Jesus, and God has granted me successes in that arena on more than a few occasions.
      I'm going to have to step-up my game. You're perverting the brethren...

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Let's start with that, cause I like you, even though you are so incredibly consistently wrong about everything on the planet.
      That's only because you wouldn't recognize truth if it sat on you and broke wind violently.

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      (CP is only kidding with that last line)
      Yeah... me too... sort of... maybe.... NOT!!!!!!
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #4
        I think I like the format better where we just reply to what the other said, instead of the apparently traditional Tweb way of breaking it apart into segments and commenting individually on those.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          I think I like the format better
          Thank you for that..

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          where we just reply to what the other said,
          I could do that!

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          instead of the apparently traditional Tweb way of breaking it apart into segments
          That is not TWeb - it is a trademarked Carpeism!

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          and commenting individually on those.
          What? I lost track of what you were saying....

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          You can get medication for that






          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #6
            OK...I have to confess...I am sitting a the Carousel Bar in New Orleans enjoying a Bombay Sapphire martini and playing around online. I am not responsible for anything I post, at least not until tomorrow...
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              The observation goes beyond this message board, CP. It goes to evangelical Christianity in the U.S. in general. That Trump has such an enormous level of support from the evangelical community speaks volumes as to how morally compromised this movement has allowed itself to become. I'm sure that is not true of every evangelical in the country (as someone we all honor said, "some of them, I'm sure, are good people"), but when you have an 83% approval rating among evangelicals...and you are Trump...? Something is not right.
              This reminds me of discussions we (not you and I) have had in the past (in the Mormon forum, of all places) about "the Troubles" in Northern Ireland. That is always pointed out to be a religious war, where it was actually a clash of cultures where both sides happened to be largely Catholic or Protestant.

              To me, it's an error to assume that the majority of Christians who support Trump do so because they back him -- but that he happens to represent (or did when I voted for him) the only avenue toward the larger cultural issues at stake.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm still wondering what "anger" you're seeing so abundantly here. I've seen things posted in anger by Christians, but don't recall seeing any recently.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  I'm still wondering what "anger" you're seeing so abundantly here. I've seen things posted in anger by Christians, but don't recall seeing any recently.
                  That has me puzzled, as well. This can be a difficult medium, of course, lacking facial expression, tone of voice, etc, but.. to ascribe anger to a post would, in my opinion, require a lot more context...
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looking more at the "Red Letter Christian Movement", I'm a little less interested in it since it seems to be yet another effort by Tony Campolo to promote himself, his books, and to sell his merchandise.

                    I know there are a lot of Campolo fans out there, but I had some interaction with him before he was famous, and I'm quite honestly not a fan.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      This reminds me of discussions we (not you and I) have had in the past (in the Mormon forum, of all places) about "the Troubles" in Northern Ireland. That is always pointed out to be a religious war, where it was actually a clash of cultures where both sides happened to be largely Catholic or Protestant.

                      To me, it's an error to assume that the majority of Christians who support Trump do so because they back him -- but that he happens to represent (or did when I voted for him) the only avenue toward the larger cultural issues at stake.
                      The problem with this analysis is fairly simple: I can vote for a person because they represent the lesser of two evils. Once they are in office however, they are in office. For me to continually reply "strongly approve" is no longer just accepting the lesser of two evils. "Strongly Approve" is a different statement altogether.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        I'm still wondering what "anger" you're seeing so abundantly here. I've seen things posted in anger by Christians, but don't recall seeing any recently.
                        OBP, seriously? Can you really look at the posts of some of the chronic offenders here, and not see hostility, anger, sarcasm, etc.? The fruits of the spirit are....? Love is....?
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          The problem with this analysis is fairly simple: I can vote for a person because they represent the lesser of two evils. Once they are in office however, they are in office. For me to continually reply "strongly approve" is no longer just accepting the lesser of two evils. "Strongly Approve" is a different statement altogether.
                          But are they "strongly approving" because he's advancing their cultural goals, or because they are "Evangelical Christians" endorsing his conduct or character?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            That has me puzzled, as well. This can be a difficult medium, of course, lacking facial expression, tone of voice, etc, but.. to ascribe anger to a post would, in my opinion, require a lot more context...
                            OK - I give. I suspect the vitriol spewed by many here (on both sides, I acknowledge) is simply going to go unacknowledged. I really don't have the inclination to go find the posts and link them, especially since history suggests they will be defended/dismissed even if I do. I'll go so far as to mark any future posts I believe to be of that ilk.

                            Perhaps we can start with any post from MM in which he changes the name of the person to whom he is responding to some grade-school taunt...?
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              But are they "strongly approving" because he's advancing their cultural goals, or because they are "Evangelical Christians" endorsing his conduct or character?
                              Yes. I search the news and the various fora I participate in, and the vast majority of evangelicals are either completely mum on his behavior, or they defend it as "refreshingly honest" (which makes me throw up in my mouth a little). It's not AL evangelicals, mind you. After all, there's still 17% who disapprove or "strongly disapprove." But the trend is pretty evident.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment

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