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Trump's Tax Returns

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    You're right, I can't know, which would make my comment... what?

    I'll give you hint: It starts with an "s".
    So stating it as an absolute, (i.e., "this would have happened if they contained X") is disingenuous at best...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      One possibility that was floated about a great deal during the election is that they might reveal that Trump wasn't as rich as he claimed which would hurt him since his being a successful businessman was his primary qualification.
      Also possible. Hard to tell what is most likely. And given the number of lawsuits he is now facing concerning his enriching himself via his office...Trump had better hope the Dems don't take the house in a few weeks. I see his approval rating has bounced back a bit in the last few days, and there has been no further erosion in the house seat situation for Reps. The Senate is still a long shot and who knows what the Kavanaugh situation will do. It could rally Reps to vote against Reps/Dems who vote against him, or it could rally Dems, especially women, to vote against Reps/Dems who vote for him.

      This is going to be an interesting election....
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        So stating it as an absolute, (i.e., "this would have happened if they contained X") is disingenuous at best...
        You just can't resist digging yourself into a hole, can you?
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Possibly.

          I think it is far more likely that the man has been making extensive use of the loopholes created for real-estate, and he doesn't want that shown. At the end of the day, I suspect he has paid little or no taxes for the last decade, which he knows will not go down well with many. I'm sure most of it is perfectly legal; the tax code favors those with money. But politically... a significant problem. And if Democrats gain the house and can leverage this law...I think Trump will be toast in 2020.
          Not making his returns public isn't the same as nobody knowing what he is doing with his money.

          You realize the IRS has his returns, right? If he is doing something illegal, don't you think they would be all over him?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            You just can't resist digging yourself into a hole, can you?
            Since I have not...
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Not making his returns public isn't the same as nobody knowing what he is doing with his money.
              I'd love to see any resource that documents Trump's holdings, earnings, and what he has paid for taxes, especially since taking office. I have significant concerns that the man is enriching himself at all our expenses.

              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              You realize the IRS has his returns, right?
              Yes

              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              If he is doing something illegal, don't you think they would be all over him?
              At no point did I say I suspect he was doing something illegal (though it is possible, I suppose. I will be interested in the disposition of the Trump Foundation trial). Indeed, I believe I explicitly said his problem was likely to be more political than legal. If I had to voice a guess, I'd guess he hasn't paid a penny in taxes for years, using every real estate loophole on the books.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                Since I have not...
                Of course you haven't.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  I'd love to see any resource that documents Trump's holdings, earnings, and what he has paid for taxes, especially since taking office. I have significant concerns that the man is enriching himself at all our expenses.
                  his money is his business.


                  Yes



                  At no point did I say I suspect he was doing something illegal (though it is possible, I suppose. I will be interested in the disposition of the Trump Foundation trial). Indeed, I believe I explicitly said his problem was likely to be more political than legal. If I had to voice a guess, I'd guess he hasn't paid a penny in taxes for years, using every real estate loophole on the books.

                  If he isn't doing anything illegal then who cares about his tax returns? it's not your business.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    If he isn't doing anything illegal then who cares about his tax returns? it's not your business.
                    Liberals are acting like there will be a line in Trump's tax returns that says, "Bribes accepted from Putin," and then they'll finally have him.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      his money is his business.
                      I disagree. If there is a potential conflict between a man making money, and a man leading this country, as a citizen I have a right to know. I have a right to know if Trump is cozying up to Putin because he wants to make real estate deals while in, or after in, his office. I want to know if the tax cut is truly for the benefit of a nation (which is hard to justify given the bloat it is creating, as expected, to the federal deficit), or for the benefit of the personal wealth of the person signing the deal. I want to know if Trump is promoting his properties by spending 30% of his time in residence at one or more of them, and by playing more golf in his first (not even) 2 years of office than any previous president played in their entire term.

                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      If he isn't doing anything illegal then who cares about his tax returns? it's not your business.
                      See above. Whether or not a person is contributing to the taxes of this nation, or dodging them at every turn, is relevant information. If they want to earn my vote - or lead this nation, they should be transparent in their financial dealings so as to not have even the vestige of doubt exist about their motivations. Publishing their taxes and putting their wealth into a blind trust has been a basic action of every president for the last 50 years. I expect it, and hold Trump accountable for not doing so and leaving SO many question marks about his fiscal and governing ethics.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        I disagree. If there is a potential conflict between a man making money, and a man leading this country, as a citizen I have a right to know. I have a right to know if Trump is cozying up to Putin because he wants to make real estate deals while in, or after in, his office. I want to know if the tax cut is truly for the benefit of a nation (which is hard to justify given the bloat it is creating, as expected, to the federal deficit), or for the benefit of the personal wealth of the person signing the deal. I want to know if Trump is promoting his properties by spending 30% of his time in residence at one or more of them, and by playing more golf in his first (not even) 2 years of office than any previous president played in their entire term.



                        See above. Whether or not a person is contributing to the taxes of this nation, or dodging them at every turn, is relevant information. If they want to earn my vote - or lead this nation, they should be transparent in their financial dealings so as to not have even the vestige of doubt exist about their motivations. Publishing their taxes and putting their wealth into a blind trust has been a basic action of every president for the last 50 years. I expect it, and hold Trump accountable for not doing so and leaving SO many question marks about his fiscal and governing ethics.
                        Just because you don't like it doesn't change the fact that it is none of your business.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Just because you don't like it doesn't change the fact that it is none of your business.
                          Just because you don't think it's my business doesn't make it so.

                          Sorry, Sparko - but these are people running for public office. We the people have a right to know our leaders and assess their merit, and know they are working for us and not themselves. That so many in this country are turning a blind eye to this is one of the reasons we have the mess we have now. I am for MORE openness in government, not less. And frankly, Reps were just as interested in knowing the financial/tax status of their leaders as Dems until Trump decided he wasn't going to cooperate. Then, suddenly, it was a non-issue.

                          A am truly looking forward to seeing what the response is if/when a Dem candidate refuses to disclose their taxes or separate themselves from their business dealings. As with so many things, I strongly suspect the tune will change. But - that is admittedly speculation. We'll have to wait to see.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Just because you don't think it's my business doesn't make it so.

                            Sorry, Sparko - but these are people running for public office. We the people have a right to know our leaders and assess their merit, and know they are working for us and not themselves. That so many in this country are turning a blind eye to this is one of the reasons we have the mess we have now. I am for MORE openness in government, not less. And frankly, Reps were just as interested in knowing the financial/tax status of their leaders as Dems until Trump decided he wasn't going to cooperate. Then, suddenly, it was a non-issue.

                            A am truly looking forward to seeing what the response is if/when a Dem candidate refuses to disclose their taxes or separate themselves from their business dealings. As with so many things, I strongly suspect the tune will change. But - that is admittedly speculation. We'll have to wait to see.
                            AFAICT Trump has met every legal obligation in releasing information concerning his wealth and taxes. The fact is the "public's right to know" is not so broad as you may want it. If it were then someone could insist on "full disclosure" of every salacious detail concerning someone's sex life with their wife in order to assess their merit and make sure they are fit.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              AFAICT Trump has met every legal obligation in releasing information concerning his wealth and taxes. The fact is the "public's right to know" is not so broad as you may want it. If it were then someone could insist on "full disclosure" of every salacious detail concerning someone's sex life with their wife in order to assess their merit and make sure they are fit.
                              My comments were not about legality. Yes, Trump has met every legal requirement for disclosing information. Every candidate for that office has done so. Whether or not Trump has met every legal requirement for separating himself from his businesses and/or not enriching himself at tax-payer expense is a matter yet to be resolved. Apparently, at least some think so because several suits are in the courts as we speak, and most have not been dismissed form consideration as meritless or on the basis that the filer lacks the "harm done" that would justify a suit. We have to wait for these suits to settle to know if he has met THAT legal benchmark.

                              As for the rest, if a candidate puts themselves forward for public office, they had better expect their lives to be combed through in detail. There is a very good reason for this, and it should be painfully obvious. If a candidate has a "salacious detail" in their past, they can potentially be blackmailed if it is discovered, creating a security risk. The higher the office, the greater the risk. It doesn 't have to be illegal - it's enough that it is immoral or simply deviates from the socially acceptable norm. Take Kavanaugh's situation. I personally don't think he should be dropped from consideration if it turns out Ford's accusation is correct - at least not solely on the basis of the accusation. But I do think the accusation is better put forward before confirmation, removing that as a possible pressure point. And I think Kavanaugh should be eliminated from consideration if it turns out that he lied about any of this in any way. A judge that will lie in a congressional hearing should not be a judge. That's what I'm waiting on.

                              Take the infamous peepee tape. As far as I can tell, there is nothing illegal about that activity. If that tape turned out to be real, however, it would represent a potent leverage by a foreign power on a high-ranking official. Doing everything possible to determine if it exists is prudent. Indeed, if I were Trump and so accused, and I knew the thing did not exist, I would turn loose the dogs of intelligence to prove that to the degree possible.
                              Last edited by carpedm9587; 10-02-2018, 01:47 PM.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Just because you don't think it's my business doesn't make it so.

                                Sorry, Sparko - but these are people running for public office. We the people have a right to know our leaders and assess their merit, and know they are working for us and not themselves. That so many in this country are turning a blind eye to this is one of the reasons we have the mess we have now. I am for MORE openness in government, not less. And frankly, Reps were just as interested in knowing the financial/tax status of their leaders as Dems until Trump decided he wasn't going to cooperate. Then, suddenly, it was a non-issue.

                                A am truly looking forward to seeing what the response is if/when a Dem candidate refuses to disclose their taxes or separate themselves from their business dealings. As with so many things, I strongly suspect the tune will change. But - that is admittedly speculation. We'll have to wait to see.
                                Was he in trouble with the IRS? Has he met the legal requirements for financial disclosure. Few everyday Americans will ever look at the tax returns of presidential candidates because that isn’t an issue most care much about.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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