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The Roman Church response to the atrocious scandals; "The Devil made me do it!"

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  • The Roman Church response to the atrocious scandals; "The Devil made me do it!"

    The Pope declares:

    Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-devil/pope-blames-devil-for-church-divisions-scandals-seeks-angels-help-idUSKCN1MI10M?il=0



    Pope blames devil for Church divisions, scandals, seeks angel's help

    VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The devil is alive and well and working overtime to undermine the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Francis says.

    In fact, the pope is so convinced that Satan is to blame for the sexual abuse crisis and deep divisions racking the Church that he has asked Catholics around the world to recite a special prayer every day in October to try to beat him back.

    “(The Church must be) saved from the attacks of the malign one, the great accuser and at the same time be made ever more aware of its guilt, its mistakes, and abuses committed in the present and the past,” Francis said in a message on Sept. 29.

    Since he was elected in 2013, Francis has made clear that he believes the devil to be real. In a document in April on holiness in the modern world, Francis mentioned the devil more than a dozen times.

    “We should not think of the devil as a myth, a representation, a symbol, a figure of speech or an idea. This mistake would lead us to let down our guard, to grow careless and end up more vulnerable,” he wrote in the document.

    The Church has recently been hit by one sexual abuse scandal after another, from Germany, to the United States, to Chile. At the same time, a deepening polarization between conservatives and liberals in the Church has played out on social media.

    Francis’ use of the term “the great accuser” to describe Satan hit a raw nerve with one of the pope’s harshest conservative critics, Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, the Vatican’s former ambassador to Washington.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  • #2
    and...?

    Comment


    • #3
      Even the largely contemptuous article you cite doesn't descend to the level of your thread title's inaccurate summation, shunya.

      The pope is correct that satan exists and sows division, and there's nothing wrong with the prayer he wants said:
      Source: prayer to Archangel Michael

      St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O Prince of heavenly hosts, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan, and all evil spirits, who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.

      © Copyright Original Source



      Unfortunately, he's also badly wrong about how he's handling the sex abuse scandal.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        and...?
        As with the atrocious scandals and cover up over a long history in this view the failure to take personal responsibility for one's actions, and the problem of unquestioned divine authority.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Even the largely contemptuous article you cite doesn't descend to the level of your thread title's inaccurate summation, shunya.

          The pope is correct that satan exists and sows division, and there's nothing wrong with the prayer he wants said:
          Source: prayer to Archangel Michael

          St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O Prince of heavenly hosts, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan, and all evil spirits, who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.

          © Copyright Original Source



          Unfortunately, he's also badly wrong about how he's handling the sex abuse scandal.
          This problem is not related to the prayer. The prayer is fine.

          The summation is right on. As with the atrocious scandals and cover up over a long history in this view the failure to take personal responsibility for one's actions, blaming a mythical figure, and the problem of unquestioned divine authority.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            As with the atrocious scandals and cover up over a long history in this view the failure to take personal responsibility for one's actions, and the problem of unquestioned divine authority.
            Blaming the devil doesn't absolve those who listen to him of their sins, Shunya.

            As a Christian I believe in the devil too and that he works in the world along with his agents to harm the church. But the people who abuse children are still responsible for their actions. I didn't see the Pope saying any differently.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              This problem is not related to the prayer. The prayer is fine.

              The summation is right on. As with the atrocious scandals and cover up over a long history in this view the failure to take personal responsibility for one's actions, blaming a mythical figure, and the problem of unquestioned divine authority.
              That the pope is going about handling this the wrong way doesn't mean that satan is a mythical figure. The problem isn't so much that the pope is failing to take personal responsibility for his actions, but that he's wrongly conflating the personal actions of those who expose the various sex scandals with satan.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #8
                As usual shuny sees only what he wants to see.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  As usual shuny sees only what he wants to see.
                  It is even worse in the actual factual history of atrocious problem in the Roman Church is greater than anything I could claim to see.

                  I grew up in the Roman Church in Latin America and I saw a lot.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    As with the atrocious scandals and cover up over a long history in this view the failure to take personal responsibility for one's actions, and the problem of unquestioned divine authority.
                    I wonder if they'd be having these problems if they had employed "the Billy Graham rule" that liberals love to mock.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I wonder if they'd be having these problems if they had employed "the Billy Graham rule" that liberals love to mock.
                      All they really needed to do was to not insist on "celibacy" for their clergy. Not that it would have prevented all issues, but maybe would have prevented a great deal of them.


                      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                        All they really needed to do was to not insist on "celibacy" for their clergy. Not that it would have prevented all issues, but maybe would have prevented a great deal of them.
                        How would that have presented all the homosexual assaults on boys?

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          How would that have presented all the homosexual assaults on boys?
                          I probably should have clarified that allowing the clergy to marry might have prevented a lot of these assaults. Perhaps the propensity to assault boys might not have been so prevalent in married clergy.

                          Of course, in a works-based system that says that all you need to do is confess your sin to another priest and do so much penance lets any sort of sinful behaviour run rampant, imo.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            How would that have presented all the homosexual assaults on boys?
                            Maybe more straight men would have become priests.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                              I probably should have clarified that allowing the clergy to marry might have prevented a lot of these assaults. Perhaps the propensity to assault boys might not have been so prevalent in married clergy.
                              Agreed.
                              Of course, in a works-based system that says that all you need to do is confess your sin to another priest and do so much penance lets any sort of sinful behaviour run rampant, imo.
                              Well, I don't see how that's any more fraught than a faith-based system where works don't matter and there is no human accountabilityat all. At least with confession/penance there's theoretically at least SOME check on one's behavior. Anecdotally, it's helped me quite a bit.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment

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