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Voter ID Redux

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  • Voter ID Redux

    This is the kind of thing being pushed by the right and Republicans that earns them the reputation for working to disenfranchise voters that don't vote Republican. At issue is a simple problem: the voter ID law (as implemented) requires the Voter ID to provide a street address. But the USPS does not provide home delivery in many autonomous reservations, and many of the people living within them don't necessarily live on streets in the conventional sense. So all they have is a P.O. Box. But the Republicans have pushed the courts to reject mailing address in favor of street address, effectively disenfranchising tens of thousands of Native American voters in North Dakota. Given the tightness of the race in that state, this is highly likely to shift the tide in favor of the Republican challenger.

    "Win at any cost" - even unethical and unscrupulous strategies - should not be the approach of EITHER political party. If you cannot win on the merits of your arguments, winning by stacking the deck is simply unacceptable, IMO
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    This is the kind of thing being pushed by the right and Republicans that earns them the reputation for working to disenfranchise voters that don't vote Republican. At issue is a simple problem: the voter ID law (as implemented) requires the Voter ID to provide a street address. But the USPS does not provide home delivery in many autonomous reservations, and many of the people living within them don't necessarily live on streets in the conventional sense. So all they have is a P.O. Box. But the Republicans have pushed the courts to reject mailing address in favor of street address, effectively disenfranchising tens of thousands of Native American voters in North Dakota. Given the tightness of the race in that state, this is highly likely to shift the tide in favor of the Republican challenger.

    "Win at any cost" - even unethical and unscrupulous strategies - should not be the approach of EITHER political party. If you cannot win on the merits of your arguments, winning by stacking the deck is simply unacceptable, IMO
    Right off the bat, in this OPINION piece, I was struck with...

    Heidi Heitkamp, a Democrat defending her seat against Rep. Kevin Cramer, a Republican challenger who’s ahead in the polls. By design, North Dakota’s law disproportionately disenfranchises Native American voters, who lean Democratic. Tuesday’s ruling could swing the election toward Cramer—and deny Democrats control over the Senate.


    Cramer is ahead in the polls, but this could swing the election toward Cramer.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Right off the bat, in this OPINION piece, I was struck with...

      Heidi Heitkamp, a Democrat defending her seat against Rep. Kevin Cramer, a Republican challenger who’s ahead in the polls. By design, North Dakota’s law disproportionately disenfranchises Native American voters, who lean Democratic. Tuesday’s ruling could swing the election toward Cramer—and deny Democrats control over the Senate.


      Cramer is ahead in the polls, but this could swing the election toward Cramer.
      Bad writing doesn't change the reality of what is happening in ND. We should not be disenfranchising voters - ever. And the specious decision to omit mailing addresses, knowing it will have that effect, is exactly that.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        Bad writing doesn't change the reality of what is happening in ND. We should not be disenfranchising voters - ever. And the specious decision to omit mailing addresses, knowing it will have that effect, is exactly that.
        They should be assisted to get whatever credentials they need to vote.

        Next?
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          They should be assisted to get whatever credentials they need to vote.

          Next?
          CP- they can't GET credentials because they lack the requirement - a street address. They lack it because the USPS does not deliver and they do not HAVE street addresses - only PO Boxes. So the law is specifically designed to exclude them. THAT'S the point.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #6
            How many among these prospective voters has not desired to have citizenship within the US or the state?

            How is it sorted out who wants to be a part of their tribal nation vs. who wants to be under rule of the state?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
              How many among these prospective voters has not desired to have citizenship within the US or the state?
              As best I can tell - they are U.S. citizens.

              Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
              How is it sorted out who wants to be a part of their tribal nation vs. who wants to be under rule of the state?
              Tribal nations may be independent, but the tribal nation falls within the bounds of the U.S. and they are considered U.S. Citizens with the right to vote in federal elections. They are sort of like a "state" unto themselves. Local and state elections are a bit more iffy - as best I can tell, it depends on whether the reservation falls completely within one state or one township.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #8
                So it seems there is no clarity on also designating such people as part of the 50 states. So far it would be arbitrary to claim that someone holding to identity to a tribal nation should have access to vote through one state or another. How do you decide which state they would vote through? There also would be a need to have different ballots for native Americans who held state citizenship from native Americans who prioritized their tribal nationality. Next you have to figure out how to associate tribal nation population with this or that state.

                How will the relationship between various aspects be resolve? States are supreme in their rule when the US constitution hasn't granted power to the US Government. Treaties between the US and the tribes have supremacy between those two entities. The US Constitution hasn't sought to grant representation to tribal nations. It seems that the tribal nations come closest to US territories which are not generally granted representation. It may even be easier for a Puerto Rican than a native American to move to a state and be a citizen there.
                Last edited by mikewhitney; 10-10-2018, 08:31 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  CP- they can't GET credentials because they lack the requirement - a street address.
                  Sorry, I stopped reading after that nutty "Cramer is ahead in the polls, but this could swing the election toward Cramer."

                  Carry on!
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just for grins, rather than take the word of an opinion piece, I went to the North Dakota Secretary of State website:

                    https://vip.sos.nd.gov/idrequirements.aspx

                    It refers to "residential address".

                    It says Identification must include the voter’s:
                    Name
                    Current North Dakota Residential Address
                    Date of Birth

                    And it allows for "Tribal government issued identification (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address)"

                    It also allows...

                    If an individual’s valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address or date of birth, or the North Dakota residential address is not current, the individual may supplement the identification with a current utility bill; a current bank statement; a check or a document issued by a federal, state, local, or tribal government (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address); or a paycheck.

                    So, is this information superseded by some new law?

                    I know of many people in Texas who have PO boxes, but also have a "rural route 7" type address.

                    If the people on the reservation have electricity or water or trash pick up, they have to have some kind of "residential address" to tell where that service is provided.



                    What am I missing, oh great condescending one?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Just for grins, rather than take the word of an opinion piece, I went to the North Dakota Secretary of State website:

                      https://vip.sos.nd.gov/idrequirements.aspx

                      It refers to "residential address".

                      It says Identification must include the voter’s:
                      Name
                      Current North Dakota Residential Address
                      Date of Birth

                      And it allows for "Tribal government issued identification (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address)"

                      It also allows...

                      If an individual’s valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address or date of birth, or the North Dakota residential address is not current, the individual may supplement the identification with a current utility bill; a current bank statement; a check or a document issued by a federal, state, local, or tribal government (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address); or a paycheck.

                      So, is this information superseded by some new law?

                      I know of many people in Texas who have PO boxes, but also have a "rural route 7" type address.

                      If the people on the reservation have electricity or water or trash pick up, they have to have some kind of "residential address" to tell where that service is provided.



                      What am I missing, oh great condescending one?
                      I wouldn't be surprised if they envision them as nomads still wandering around and building a teepee and living there for a few weeks before moving on.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

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                      Comment


                      • #12


                        IF there is a problem with the Indian's not being able to vote, they need to fix it. But I am thinking this is more of a liberal whine than something real. But it really isn't a Voter ID thing is it? more of a voter address thing. Having a valid residence in a voting district is paramount to knowing who can vote in which elections. This isn't something new and it is a universal requirement everywhere.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          https://vip.sos.nd.gov/idrequirements.aspx

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Right off the bat, in this OPINION piece, I was struck with...

                            Heidi Heitkamp, a Democrat defending her seat against Rep. Kevin Cramer, a Republican challenger who’s ahead in the polls. By design, North Dakota’s law disproportionately disenfranchises Native American voters, who lean Democratic. Tuesday’s ruling could swing the election toward Cramer—and deny Democrats control over the Senate.


                            Cramer is ahead in the polls, but this could swing the election toward Cramer.
                            FWIU, Cramer is sufficiently ahead in the polls that Heitkamp didn't think that voting for Kavanaugh would be sufficient to swing things her way. Sounds like someone's using the time-honored tradition of scare tactics.
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                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              This is the kind of thing being pushed by the right and Republicans that earns them the reputation for working to disenfranchise voters that don't vote Republican. At issue is a simple problem: the voter ID law (as implemented) requires the Voter ID to provide a street address. But the USPS does not provide home delivery in many autonomous reservations, and many of the people living within them don't necessarily live on streets in the conventional sense. So all they have is a P.O. Box. But the Republicans have pushed the courts to reject mailing address in favor of street address, effectively disenfranchising tens of thousands of Native American voters in North Dakota. Given the tightness of the race in that state, this is highly likely to shift the tide in favor of the Republican challenger.

                              "Win at any cost" - even unethical and unscrupulous strategies - should not be the approach of EITHER political party. If you cannot win on the merits of your arguments, winning by stacking the deck is simply unacceptable, IMO
                              Take a look at the Georgia Governors race. The republican candidate, in this neck and neck race, also controls the voter registration rolls and is rejecting on ridiculous technicalities some 50 thousand majority black registrations, unbeknownst to the registrants themselves, in order to suppress the vote of his democrat opponent.

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