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Thread: Voter ID Redux

  1. #31
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Do you understand the extent to which that value is a partisan left-wing value though? Especially in the US.
    Unfortunately, yes... I do

    On this topic, I definitely lean much further left than right. I find no compelling evidence to suggest voter fraud is a serious problem. So if someone succeeds in preventing 100 instances of voter fraud by disenfranchising 65K people, I consider that a bad solution. It denies a basic right in order to prevent a very small number of instances of fraud. It is out of balance. The solution should not disenfranchise significantly more people than the instances of fraud it prevents.

    So if you can show me that disenfranchising 65K people will prevent approx 65K instances of voter fraud - I'll probably say, OK - that's a reasonable swap. If you cannot show me that the fraud is happening at any significant level, then your solution should not disenfranchise people at any significant level.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 10-11-2018 at 09:26 PM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  2. #32
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    You are missing that 65K+ of these people do not have a residential street address - because the USPS does not deliver on many of these lands. So they have a P.O. Box. instead. They have a mailing address - not a street address. So if they try to provide a copy of a bill, it will reflect a P.O. Box, not a residential address - thereby disqualifying them from voter registration.
    You are missing that they have to have a property address if they have water or electricity or garbage pickup --- and that appears to be allowed for on their website.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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  4. #33
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    If you read it - every part of it says that "residential address" is required. The problem is that some 65K of these tribe members do not have a residential address. They have a P.O. Box - but no numerical street address. Ergo, the tribal ID does not reflect it - the driver's license does not reflect it. Their address is a P.O. Box. As best I can tell - this is the case. So they cannot provide one of the three required pieces of information for voter registration.
    You missed "If an individualís valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address or date of birth, or the North Dakota residential address is not current, the individual may supplement the identification with a current utility bill"

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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  6. #34
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    You missed "If an individualís valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address or date of birth, or the North Dakota residential address is not current, the individual may supplement the identification with a current utility bill"
    And the current utility bill will likely have a P.O. Box - which fails to meet the requirements at the top of the page...

    Do you seriously think that the dissenters of SCOTUS are just blowing smoke, and don't have the facts?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  7. #35
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    You are missing that they have to have a property address if they have water or electricity or garbage pickup --- and that appears to be allowed for on their website.
    Where are you getting this piece of information, and how do you know that these 65K affected people are getting these services from a public utility? Citations please...
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 10-11-2018 at 09:52 PM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  8. #36
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Where are you getting this piece of information. Citation?
    Unlike you, my friend - I didn't get it from a badly worded gossip column.

    I got it from the actual official North Dakota Secretary of State website.

    That link appears several times in this thread, including where I first supplied the information.

    SHEEEEESH, these people can be SO thick!

    sos nd.jpg

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  9. #37
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Where are you getting this piece of information, and how do you know that these 65K affected people are getting these services from a public utility? Citations please...
    How do you know they're not? Citations please.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  10. #38
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    This is the kind of thing being pushed by the right and Republicans ...
    Let it be known that "this" (offered by Carpe) is a pinko commie leftist publication,

    slate.jpg

    verses the actual North Dakota Secretary of State website (offered by me ) where the qualifications are laid out.

    You could have gone to the source yourself, brother.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  11. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Yet the fact is that Native Americans in the U.S. have the right to vote - and have had it for a long, long time. It is now being denied in North Dakota for the lack of a specific street address.
    Yes indeed. Your observation is correct that Native Americans have been granted federal standing to vote.
    CowPoke already addressed the second point you tried to make.
    Now do you have anything to add to what I pointed out?
    Last edited by mikewhitney; 10-11-2018 at 10:43 PM.

  13. #40
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Let it be known that "this" (offered by Carpe) is a pinko commie leftist publication,

    slate.jpg

    verses the actual North Dakota Secretary of State website (offered by me ) where the qualifications are laid out.

    You could have gone to the source yourself, brother.
    I DID go to the source, CP. I NEVER take one publication as writ. The website confirms the article, as does the SCOTUS dissention. I'm not sure why you are missing this.

    And your objection is a classic example of the "genetic fallacy."
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

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