Voter ID Redux

[One Bad Pig]

Nope, I know that's what they tell you now, but "exact match" means "exact match" with everything, not just with ss and drivers licence numbers. That's why it's called the "exact match law," duh!

This appears to be flatly false; the term doesn't even appear in the law.

Further:

Source: Louis DeBroux

Georgia law (HB 268) requires the voter registration application address to match the address on file with the Department of Driver Services. If there is a discrepancy, the voter has 26 months to provide the necessary documentation to correct the error and, in the meantime, the voter may still cast a provisional ballotincluding from leaders in her own party, who have pointed to her $175,000 salary, the complete lack of transparency by Abrams, and

© Copyright Original Source

It turns out, Abrams is bleating about a mess she deliberately created, and even some on her side are crying foul. Never fear, though, she's still got JimL to carry her water.

[Cow Poke]

So basically you are calling blacks illiterate?

Unless they're "smart" enough to worship at the altar of liberalism.

[KingsGambit]

A friend of mine who recently moved to Texas just posted a rant on Facebook about her difficulty in getting an ID to vote. She says that one is required to have two items (i.e. mail) with one's name on it, but that this is difficult because her town does not have mail delivery, so everything is sent to a PO Box, and that this was her fourth unsuccessful attempt to get a license.

Do some people really have this much trouble? I've always sort of assumed it was a simple process but if some people are having this much trouble, I have to wonder why we can't at least make the process easier. (Well, no, I know the answer to that question.)

[Cow Poke]

A friend of mine who recently moved to Texas just posted a rant on Facebook about her difficulty in getting an ID to vote. She says that one is required to have two items (i.e. mail) with one's name on it, but that this is difficult because her town does not have mail delivery, so everything is sent to a PO Box, and that this was her fourth unsuccessful attempt to get a license.

Do some people really have this much trouble? I've always sort of assumed it was a simple process but if some people are having this much trouble, I have to wonder why we can't at least make the process easier. (Well, no, I know the answer to that question.)

The list of items one may use to obtain a driver's license in Texas is quite expansive. I regularly help homeless people get "documented", including getting copies of their birth certificates, social security cards, driver's license (or State ID).... She maybe just wants to waltz in there, state her name, and be licensed?

[KingsGambit]

The list of items one may use to obtain a driver's license in Texas is quite expansive. I regularly help homeless people get "documented", including getting copies of their birth certificates, social security cards, driver's license (or State ID).... She maybe just wants to waltz in there, state her name, and be licensed?

I'm not sure, but it's her fourth time showing up at the office so presumably she is trying to comply. I'm not going to ask.

It's not as bad as in Alabama where they only open up the county offices in many rural areas once a month to get your ID (so if you have to work, you're hosed).

[Cow Poke]

I'm not sure, but it's her fourth time showing up at the office so presumably she is trying to comply. I'm not going to ask.

It's not as bad as in Alabama where they only open up the county offices in many rural areas once a month to get your ID (so if you have to work, you're hosed).

Here are the requirements, along with acceptable documents:

https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLice...quirements.htm

[Cow Poke]

Interesting... you can also use....

Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood

[rogue06]

Interesting... you can also use....

Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood

So Elizabeth Warren will have what, 1/1024^th of a certificate?

[rogue06]

Source: Texas Dems ask noncitizens to register to vote, send applications with citizenship box pre-checked

Source

© Copyright Original Source

But those dang-blasted Republicans are trying to suppress another legit Democrat voter registration drive

[carpedm9587]

So I'm going to close out my participation in this thread with the following observation. First, I was wrong about the situation in North Dakota. As best I can tell, the requirements are written in a way that can be achieved. CPs use of Google Maps was excellent, and prompted me to do the same. I found streets and house numbers in most parts of most reservations. I have no idea how many people in the reservations do not have street numbers. I also found acknowledgements that, although street addresses were prevalent, they were a relatively new implementation in many reservations, and there had been no concerted effort to shift the culture to recognize their importance and use the addresses (e.g., on Tribal IDs). The problem appears to be that the widespread use of P.O. Boxes means the people generally do not have the secondary documentation (e.g., pieces of mail) with a residential address on them. All of this can be fixed, but the real problem (which was the objection from the SCOTUS dissent) is the proximity to an election cycle. Once again, as has been repeated in so many places, the confusion is likely to result in many people not being able to vote. Most of these people are likely to be members of various tribes, which tend to vote Democratic.

It is hard not to see all of the Voter ID energy as a ploy to stifle the Democratic vote when, election cycle after election cycle, this crops up in multiple places, and pretty consistently primarily impacts voters most likely to vote Democrat.

Again - I have no objection to voter ID laws and requirements. I have an objection to implementing them in a way that will disenfranchise significantly more people than the level of demonstrable voter fraud it prevents. Voter ID laws need to be implemented in a voter-neutral manner, so neither party is more or less impacted, and voters are not denied the vote. The vote is a fundamental right/responsibility of an American citizen. It is unamerican to intentionally make it difficult for people to exercise it.

[Cow Poke]

So I'm going to close out my participation in this thread with the following observation. First, I was wrong about the situation in North Dakota. As best I can tell, the requirements are written in a way that can be achieved. CPs use of Google Maps was excellent, and prompted me to do the same. I found streets and house numbers in most parts of most reservations. I have no idea how many people in the reservations do not have street numbers. I also found acknowledgements that, although street addresses were prevalent, they were a relatively new implementation in many reservations, and there had been no concerted effort to shift the culture to recognize their importance and use the addresses (e.g., on Tribal IDs). The problem appears to be that the widespread use of P.O. Boxes means the people generally do not have the secondary documentation (e.g., pieces of mail) with a residential address on them. All of this can be fixed, but the real problem (which was the objection from the SCOTUS dissent) is the proximity to an election cycle. Once again, as has been repeated in so many places, the confusion is likely to result in many people not being able to vote. Most of these people are likely to be members of various tribes, which tend to vote Democratic.

It is hard not to see all of the Voter ID energy as a ploy to stifle the Democratic vote when, election cycle after election cycle, this crops up in multiple places, and pretty consistently primarily impacts voters most likely to vote Democrat.

Again - I have no objection to voter ID laws and requirements. I have an objection to implementing them in a way that will disenfranchise significantly more people than the level of demonstrable voter fraud it prevents. Voter ID laws need to be implemented in a voter-neutral manner, so neither party is more or less impacted, and voters are not denied the vote. The vote is a fundamental right/responsibility of an American citizen. It is unamerican to intentionally make it difficult for people to exercise it.

I applaud your recognizing this isn't as big a problem as it was made out to be, but I don't think you have addressed (get it? ) the fact that utility bills would have a "service address" on them, therefore, utility bills were listed as acceptable documentation.

[Cow Poke]

It is hard not to see all of the Voter ID energy as a ploy to stifle the Democratic vote when, election cycle after election cycle, this crops up in multiple places, and pretty consistently primarily impacts voters most likely to vote Democrat.

On this point, isn't it possible that the REASON it comes up "election cycle after election cycle" is because somebody's trying to exploit it as voter suppression? I mean, we've cited sources - including the ND Sec of State - who claim that the 911 Addressing problem, and this issue - have been going on for years.

Nobody cares about it when it's not "election cycle". In fact, if the Dems were so worried about it, why do they wait til the last minute to protest? Why aren't they involved BETWEEN election cycles in helping people get prepared?

[oxmixmudd]

On this point, isn't it possible that the REASON it comes up "election cycle after election cycle" is because somebody's trying to exploit it as voter suppression? I mean, we've cited sources - including the ND Sec of State - who claim that the 911 Addressing problem, and this issue - have been going on for years.

Nobody cares about it when it's not "election cycle". In fact, if the Dems were so worried about it, why do they wait til the last minute to protest? Why aren't they involved BETWEEN election cycles in helping people get prepared?

This would only be an issue if the law changed recently. As in, the push for only street address was pushed for and passed in recently. Then it become an issue they can't respond to in a timely manner and falls in the category of an attempt to disenfranchise certain voters.

Changes in voter id law should be timed so as not to impact elections. Seems to me a simple fix would be that any changes in the law that is not a response to significant demonstrated voter fraud or significant proven election interference by outside elements within 1 year of an election face a mandatory delay until completion of the pending election. Then everybody has time to prepare for the change prior to the next election (or time to challenge the law prior to the next election). The exception allows for fixes to critical security issues that can't wait an election cycle.


Jim

[Cow Poke]

This would only be an issue if the law changed recently. As in, the push for only street address was pushed for and passed in recently. Then it become an issue they can't respond to in a timely manner and falls in the category of an attempt to disenfranchise certain voters.

Changes in voter id law should be timed so as not to impact elections. Seems to me a simple fix would be that any changes in the law that is not a response to significant demonstrated voter fraud or significant proven election interference by outside elements within 1 year of an election face a mandatory delay until completion of the pending election. Then everybody has time to prepare for the change prior to the next election (or time to challenge the law prior to the next election). The exception allows for fixes to critical security issues that can't wait an election cycle.


Jim

Jim, this has been going on since 2013. Then only thing new is the SCOTUS decision (on which Kavanaugh did NOT vote, contrary to popular rumors) which even Snopes admits...



Further....

If you encounter anyone who says to you that they do not have a residential street address to provide to either the [Department of Transport] or the tribal government to obtain an ID, please encourage them to reach out to the 911 Coordinator in the county in which their residence exists to start the simple process to have the address assigned.

The North Dakota Association of Counties maintains a list of all 53 County 911 Coordinators. A simple phone call to this individual can start this no charge process that can usually be completed in an hour or less when the individual can describe the location of the home. After the address is assigned, the office assigning it will provide a letter upon request that confirms this new address. This letter can be used either to obtain an ID or as supplemental documentation for voting purposes for those individuals whose ID includes a mailing address rather than a residential address.

While I certainly agree that laws should not "suddenly appear" just before the election cycle, that's now that happened here.

[carpedm9587]

I applaud your recognizing this isn't as big a problem as it was made out to be, but I don't think you have addressed (get it? ) the fact that utility bills would have a "service address" on them, therefore, utility bills were listed as acceptable documentation.

That may be true at your place. I just looked at my electric bill and my propane bill. Neither has a "service address" on it. I don't know what is true for ND.