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Voter ID Redux

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  • #91
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Nope, I know that's what they tell you now, but "exact match" means "exact match" with everything, not just with ss and drivers licence numbers. That's why it's called the "exact match law," duh!
    This appears to be flatly false; the term doesn't even appear in the law.

    Further:
    Source: Louis DeBroux


    Georgia law (HB 268) requires the voter registration application address to match the address on file with the Department of Driver Services. If there is a discrepancy, the voter has 26 months to provide the necessary documentation to correct the error and, in the meantime, the voter may still cast a provisional ballot. If the voter information can be verified, the ballot is counted. None of the 53,000 applications in question are removed from the voter rolls. They are put in a category designated “pending” until the identity of the voter is definitively determined.

    ...The flood of questionable voter applications are the result of efforts by the New Georgia Project (NGP), a nonprofit founded in 2014 by none other than Abrams, with the stated goal of registering minority voters in Georgia.

    Abrams’s organization has been the subject of intense criticism since its founding, including from leaders in her own party, who have pointed to her $175,000 salary, the complete lack of transparency by Abrams, and NGP’s history of submitting “fraudulent and invalid voter registration applications to the Secretary of State.”

    In 2014, the leftist rag Slate wrote about NGP, documenting, as described by Georgia State Rep. Bert Reeves, the “sloppy, questionable, and invalid voter applications” routinely submitted to the Georgia secretary of state’s office. Even Creative Loafing, a local lefty newspaper in Atlanta, questioned the validity of Abrams’s accusations against Kemp, warning that the voter applications may have been manufactured by Abrams’s group in order to justify the millions of dollars she took from NGP’s donors.

    When challenged on her habit of submitting inaccurate and fraudulent applications, Abrams smugly responded that Georgia’s election law only “requires that we turn in all application forms we collect, regardless of concerns over validity. It’s the job of the secretary of state to determine the status of the applications. We do not get to make the decisions about whether or not a form is valid or not.”

    In other words, Abrams’s organization flooded Secretary of State Kemp’s office with tens of thousands of inaccurate and fraudulent voter applications, knowing full well it would take significant time and resources to review and verify the applications, and then she screams racism and voter suppression when the bogus applications are flagged as “pending” until verified.

    © Copyright Original Source



    It turns out, Abrams is bleating about a mess she deliberately created, and even some on her side are crying foul. Never fear, though, she's still got JimL to carry her water.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      So basically you are calling blacks illiterate?
      Unless they're "smart" enough to worship at the altar of liberalism.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #93
        A friend of mine who recently moved to Texas just posted a rant on Facebook about her difficulty in getting an ID to vote. She says that one is required to have two items (i.e. mail) with one's name on it, but that this is difficult because her town does not have mail delivery, so everything is sent to a PO Box, and that this was her fourth unsuccessful attempt to get a license.

        Do some people really have this much trouble? I've always sort of assumed it was a simple process but if some people are having this much trouble, I have to wonder why we can't at least make the process easier. (Well, no, I know the answer to that question.)
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          A friend of mine who recently moved to Texas just posted a rant on Facebook about her difficulty in getting an ID to vote. She says that one is required to have two items (i.e. mail) with one's name on it, but that this is difficult because her town does not have mail delivery, so everything is sent to a PO Box, and that this was her fourth unsuccessful attempt to get a license.

          Do some people really have this much trouble? I've always sort of assumed it was a simple process but if some people are having this much trouble, I have to wonder why we can't at least make the process easier. (Well, no, I know the answer to that question.)
          The list of items one may use to obtain a driver's license in Texas is quite expansive. I regularly help homeless people get "documented", including getting copies of their birth certificates, social security cards, driver's license (or State ID).... She maybe just wants to waltz in there, state her name, and be licensed?
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            The list of items one may use to obtain a driver's license in Texas is quite expansive. I regularly help homeless people get "documented", including getting copies of their birth certificates, social security cards, driver's license (or State ID).... She maybe just wants to waltz in there, state her name, and be licensed?
            I'm not sure, but it's her fourth time showing up at the office so presumably she is trying to comply. I'm not going to ask.

            It's not as bad as in Alabama where they only open up the county offices in many rural areas once a month to get your ID (so if you have to work, you're hosed).
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              I'm not sure, but it's her fourth time showing up at the office so presumably she is trying to comply. I'm not going to ask.

              It's not as bad as in Alabama where they only open up the county offices in many rural areas once a month to get your ID (so if you have to work, you're hosed).
              Here are the requirements, along with acceptable documents:

              https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLice...quirements.htm
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #97
                Interesting... you can also use....

                Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood

                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Interesting... you can also use....

                  Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood

                  So Elizabeth Warren will have what, 1/1024th of a certificate?

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                  • #99
                    Source: Texas Dems ask noncitizens to register to vote, send applications with citizenship box pre-checked


                    The Texas Democratic Party asked non-citizens to register to vote, sending out applications to immigrants with the box citizenship already checked “Yes,” according to new complaints filed Thursday asking prosecutors to see what laws may have been broken.

                    The Public Interest Legal Foundation alerted district attorneys and the federal Justice Department to the pre-checked applications, and also included a signed affidavit from a man who said some of his relatives, who aren’t citizens, received the mailing.

                    “This is how the Texas Democratic Party is inviting foreign influence in an election in a federal election cycle,” said Logan Churchwell, spokesman for the PILF, a group that’s made its mark policing states’ voter registration practices.

                    The Texas secretary of state’s office said it, too, had gotten complaints both from immigrants and from relatives of dead people who said they got mailings asking them to register.



                    Source

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    But those dang-blasted Republicans are trying to suppress another legit Democrat voter registration drive

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • So I'm going to close out my participation in this thread with the following observation. First, I was wrong about the situation in North Dakota. As best I can tell, the requirements are written in a way that can be achieved. CPs use of Google Maps was excellent, and prompted me to do the same. I found streets and house numbers in most parts of most reservations. I have no idea how many people in the reservations do not have street numbers. I also found acknowledgements that, although street addresses were prevalent, they were a relatively new implementation in many reservations, and there had been no concerted effort to shift the culture to recognize their importance and use the addresses (e.g., on Tribal IDs). The problem appears to be that the widespread use of P.O. Boxes means the people generally do not have the secondary documentation (e.g., pieces of mail) with a residential address on them. All of this can be fixed, but the real problem (which was the objection from the SCOTUS dissent) is the proximity to an election cycle. Once again, as has been repeated in so many places, the confusion is likely to result in many people not being able to vote. Most of these people are likely to be members of various tribes, which tend to vote Democratic.

                      It is hard not to see all of the Voter ID energy as a ploy to stifle the Democratic vote when, election cycle after election cycle, this crops up in multiple places, and pretty consistently primarily impacts voters most likely to vote Democrat.

                      Again - I have no objection to voter ID laws and requirements. I have an objection to implementing them in a way that will disenfranchise significantly more people than the level of demonstrable voter fraud it prevents. Voter ID laws need to be implemented in a voter-neutral manner, so neither party is more or less impacted, and voters are not denied the vote. The vote is a fundamental right/responsibility of an American citizen. It is unamerican to intentionally make it difficult for people to exercise it.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        So I'm going to close out my participation in this thread with the following observation. First, I was wrong about the situation in North Dakota. As best I can tell, the requirements are written in a way that can be achieved. CPs use of Google Maps was excellent, and prompted me to do the same. I found streets and house numbers in most parts of most reservations. I have no idea how many people in the reservations do not have street numbers. I also found acknowledgements that, although street addresses were prevalent, they were a relatively new implementation in many reservations, and there had been no concerted effort to shift the culture to recognize their importance and use the addresses (e.g., on Tribal IDs). The problem appears to be that the widespread use of P.O. Boxes means the people generally do not have the secondary documentation (e.g., pieces of mail) with a residential address on them. All of this can be fixed, but the real problem (which was the objection from the SCOTUS dissent) is the proximity to an election cycle. Once again, as has been repeated in so many places, the confusion is likely to result in many people not being able to vote. Most of these people are likely to be members of various tribes, which tend to vote Democratic.

                        It is hard not to see all of the Voter ID energy as a ploy to stifle the Democratic vote when, election cycle after election cycle, this crops up in multiple places, and pretty consistently primarily impacts voters most likely to vote Democrat.

                        Again - I have no objection to voter ID laws and requirements. I have an objection to implementing them in a way that will disenfranchise significantly more people than the level of demonstrable voter fraud it prevents. Voter ID laws need to be implemented in a voter-neutral manner, so neither party is more or less impacted, and voters are not denied the vote. The vote is a fundamental right/responsibility of an American citizen. It is unamerican to intentionally make it difficult for people to exercise it.
                        I applaud your recognizing this isn't as big a problem as it was made out to be, but I don't think you have addressed (get it? ) the fact that utility bills would have a "service address" on them, therefore, utility bills were listed as acceptable documentation.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          It is hard not to see all of the Voter ID energy as a ploy to stifle the Democratic vote when, election cycle after election cycle, this crops up in multiple places, and pretty consistently primarily impacts voters most likely to vote Democrat.
                          On this point, isn't it possible that the REASON it comes up "election cycle after election cycle" is because somebody's trying to exploit it as voter suppression? I mean, we've cited sources - including the ND Sec of State - who claim that the 911 Addressing problem, and this issue - have been going on for years.

                          Nobody cares about it when it's not "election cycle". In fact, if the Dems were so worried about it, why do they wait til the last minute to protest? Why aren't they involved BETWEEN election cycles in helping people get prepared?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            On this point, isn't it possible that the REASON it comes up "election cycle after election cycle" is because somebody's trying to exploit it as voter suppression? I mean, we've cited sources - including the ND Sec of State - who claim that the 911 Addressing problem, and this issue - have been going on for years.

                            Nobody cares about it when it's not "election cycle". In fact, if the Dems were so worried about it, why do they wait til the last minute to protest? Why aren't they involved BETWEEN election cycles in helping people get prepared?
                            This would only be an issue if the law changed recently. As in, the push for only street address was pushed for and passed in recently. Then it become an issue they can't respond to in a timely manner and falls in the category of an attempt to disenfranchise certain voters.

                            Changes in voter id law should be timed so as not to impact elections. Seems to me a simple fix would be that any changes in the law that is not a response to significant demonstrated voter fraud or significant proven election interference by outside elements within 1 year of an election face a mandatory delay until completion of the pending election. Then everybody has time to prepare for the change prior to the next election (or time to challenge the law prior to the next election). The exception allows for fixes to critical security issues that can't wait an election cycle.


                            Jim
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              This would only be an issue if the law changed recently. As in, the push for only street address was pushed for and passed in recently. Then it become an issue they can't respond to in a timely manner and falls in the category of an attempt to disenfranchise certain voters.

                              Changes in voter id law should be timed so as not to impact elections. Seems to me a simple fix would be that any changes in the law that is not a response to significant demonstrated voter fraud or significant proven election interference by outside elements within 1 year of an election face a mandatory delay until completion of the pending election. Then everybody has time to prepare for the change prior to the next election (or time to challenge the law prior to the next election). The exception allows for fixes to critical security issues that can't wait an election cycle.


                              Jim
                              Jim, this has been going on since 2013. Then only thing new is the SCOTUS decision (on which Kavanaugh did NOT vote, contrary to popular rumors) which even Snopes admits...

                              It’s important to note that, contrary to some news reports, the U.S. Supreme Court did not precisely “uphold” North Dakota’s voter ID laws on 9 October 2018.

                              The court did not issue any ruling on the constitutional or legal merits of H.B. 1369 itself (or 1332 and 1333, which remain on the statute books but are unenforced due to Hovland’s 2016 District Court injunction). Rather, the Supreme Court issued a very narrowly defined ruling on a specific legal question, leaving a lower court’s ruling in place by declining to reverse the Eighth Circuit’s stay of the U.S. District Court’s injunction covering the state of North Dakota’s enforcement of H.B. 1369.


                              Further....

                              It is true that many tribal members in North Dakota do not have residential street addresses and instead rely upon P.O. boxes, thus leaving them vulnerable to the restrictions implemented under H.B. 1369.

                              However, Secretary of State Jaeger has written to tribal leaders, outlining the process by which anyone without a street address can acquire one and then obtain written confirmation of the new address — either as a means of obtaining a new form of ID, or as supplemental documentation (as allowed under H.B. 1369) to be brought to a polling station on Election Day:
                              If you encounter anyone who says to you that they do not have a residential street address to provide to either the [Department of Transport] or the tribal government to obtain an ID, please encourage them to reach out to the 911 Coordinator in the county in which their residence exists to start the simple process to have the address assigned.

                              The North Dakota Association of Counties maintains a list of all 53 County 911 Coordinators. A simple phone call to this individual can start this no charge process that can usually be completed in an hour or less when the individual can describe the location of the home. After the address is assigned, the office assigning it will provide a letter upon request that confirms this new address. This letter can be used either to obtain an ID or as supplemental documentation for voting purposes for those individuals whose ID includes a mailing address rather than a residential address.


                              While I certainly agree that laws should not "suddenly appear" just before the election cycle, that's now that happened here.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                I applaud your recognizing this isn't as big a problem as it was made out to be, but I don't think you have addressed (get it? ) the fact that utility bills would have a "service address" on them, therefore, utility bills were listed as acceptable documentation.
                                That may be true at your place. I just looked at my electric bill and my propane bill. Neither has a "service address" on it. I don't know what is true for ND.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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