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Voter ID Redux
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostSo basically you are calling blacks illiterate?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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A friend of mine who recently moved to Texas just posted a rant on Facebook about her difficulty in getting an ID to vote. She says that one is required to have two items (i.e. mail) with one's name on it, but that this is difficult because her town does not have mail delivery, so everything is sent to a PO Box, and that this was her fourth unsuccessful attempt to get a license.
Do some people really have this much trouble? I've always sort of assumed it was a simple process but if some people are having this much trouble, I have to wonder why we can't at least make the process easier. (Well, no, I know the answer to that question.)"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostA friend of mine who recently moved to Texas just posted a rant on Facebook about her difficulty in getting an ID to vote. She says that one is required to have two items (i.e. mail) with one's name on it, but that this is difficult because her town does not have mail delivery, so everything is sent to a PO Box, and that this was her fourth unsuccessful attempt to get a license.
Do some people really have this much trouble? I've always sort of assumed it was a simple process but if some people are having this much trouble, I have to wonder why we can't at least make the process easier. (Well, no, I know the answer to that question.)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThe list of items one may use to obtain a driver's license in Texas is quite expansive. I regularly help homeless people get "documented", including getting copies of their birth certificates, social security cards, driver's license (or State ID).... She maybe just wants to waltz in there, state her name, and be licensed?
It's not as bad as in Alabama where they only open up the county offices in many rural areas once a month to get your ID (so if you have to work, you're hosed)."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI'm not sure, but it's her fourth time showing up at the office so presumably she is trying to comply. I'm not going to ask.
It's not as bad as in Alabama where they only open up the county offices in many rural areas once a month to get your ID (so if you have to work, you're hosed).
https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLice...quirements.htmThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostInteresting... you can also use....
Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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But those dang-blasted Republicans are trying to suppress another legit Democrat voter registration drive
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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So I'm going to close out my participation in this thread with the following observation. First, I was wrong about the situation in North Dakota. As best I can tell, the requirements are written in a way that can be achieved. CPs use of Google Maps was excellent, and prompted me to do the same. I found streets and house numbers in most parts of most reservations. I have no idea how many people in the reservations do not have street numbers. I also found acknowledgements that, although street addresses were prevalent, they were a relatively new implementation in many reservations, and there had been no concerted effort to shift the culture to recognize their importance and use the addresses (e.g., on Tribal IDs). The problem appears to be that the widespread use of P.O. Boxes means the people generally do not have the secondary documentation (e.g., pieces of mail) with a residential address on them. All of this can be fixed, but the real problem (which was the objection from the SCOTUS dissent) is the proximity to an election cycle. Once again, as has been repeated in so many places, the confusion is likely to result in many people not being able to vote. Most of these people are likely to be members of various tribes, which tend to vote Democratic.
It is hard not to see all of the Voter ID energy as a ploy to stifle the Democratic vote when, election cycle after election cycle, this crops up in multiple places, and pretty consistently primarily impacts voters most likely to vote Democrat.
Again - I have no objection to voter ID laws and requirements. I have an objection to implementing them in a way that will disenfranchise significantly more people than the level of demonstrable voter fraud it prevents. Voter ID laws need to be implemented in a voter-neutral manner, so neither party is more or less impacted, and voters are not denied the vote. The vote is a fundamental right/responsibility of an American citizen. It is unamerican to intentionally make it difficult for people to exercise it.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSo I'm going to close out my participation in this thread with the following observation. First, I was wrong about the situation in North Dakota. As best I can tell, the requirements are written in a way that can be achieved. CPs use of Google Maps was excellent, and prompted me to do the same. I found streets and house numbers in most parts of most reservations. I have no idea how many people in the reservations do not have street numbers. I also found acknowledgements that, although street addresses were prevalent, they were a relatively new implementation in many reservations, and there had been no concerted effort to shift the culture to recognize their importance and use the addresses (e.g., on Tribal IDs). The problem appears to be that the widespread use of P.O. Boxes means the people generally do not have the secondary documentation (e.g., pieces of mail) with a residential address on them. All of this can be fixed, but the real problem (which was the objection from the SCOTUS dissent) is the proximity to an election cycle. Once again, as has been repeated in so many places, the confusion is likely to result in many people not being able to vote. Most of these people are likely to be members of various tribes, which tend to vote Democratic.
It is hard not to see all of the Voter ID energy as a ploy to stifle the Democratic vote when, election cycle after election cycle, this crops up in multiple places, and pretty consistently primarily impacts voters most likely to vote Democrat.
Again - I have no objection to voter ID laws and requirements. I have an objection to implementing them in a way that will disenfranchise significantly more people than the level of demonstrable voter fraud it prevents. Voter ID laws need to be implemented in a voter-neutral manner, so neither party is more or less impacted, and voters are not denied the vote. The vote is a fundamental right/responsibility of an American citizen. It is unamerican to intentionally make it difficult for people to exercise it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostIt is hard not to see all of the Voter ID energy as a ploy to stifle the Democratic vote when, election cycle after election cycle, this crops up in multiple places, and pretty consistently primarily impacts voters most likely to vote Democrat.
Nobody cares about it when it's not "election cycle". In fact, if the Dems were so worried about it, why do they wait til the last minute to protest? Why aren't they involved BETWEEN election cycles in helping people get prepared?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOn this point, isn't it possible that the REASON it comes up "election cycle after election cycle" is because somebody's trying to exploit it as voter suppression? I mean, we've cited sources - including the ND Sec of State - who claim that the 911 Addressing problem, and this issue - have been going on for years.
Nobody cares about it when it's not "election cycle". In fact, if the Dems were so worried about it, why do they wait til the last minute to protest? Why aren't they involved BETWEEN election cycles in helping people get prepared?
Changes in voter id law should be timed so as not to impact elections. Seems to me a simple fix would be that any changes in the law that is not a response to significant demonstrated voter fraud or significant proven election interference by outside elements within 1 year of an election face a mandatory delay until completion of the pending election. Then everybody has time to prepare for the change prior to the next election (or time to challenge the law prior to the next election). The exception allows for fixes to critical security issues that can't wait an election cycle.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThis would only be an issue if the law changed recently. As in, the push for only street address was pushed for and passed in recently. Then it become an issue they can't respond to in a timely manner and falls in the category of an attempt to disenfranchise certain voters.
Changes in voter id law should be timed so as not to impact elections. Seems to me a simple fix would be that any changes in the law that is not a response to significant demonstrated voter fraud or significant proven election interference by outside elements within 1 year of an election face a mandatory delay until completion of the pending election. Then everybody has time to prepare for the change prior to the next election (or time to challenge the law prior to the next election). The exception allows for fixes to critical security issues that can't wait an election cycle.
Jim
Further....
If you encounter anyone who says to you that they do not have a residential street address to provide to either the [Department of Transport] or the tribal government to obtain an ID, please encourage them to reach out to the 911 Coordinator in the county in which their residence exists to start the simple process to have the address assigned.
The North Dakota Association of Counties maintains a list of all 53 County 911 Coordinators. A simple phone call to this individual can start this no charge process that can usually be completed in an hour or less when the individual can describe the location of the home. After the address is assigned, the office assigning it will provide a letter upon request that confirms this new address. This letter can be used either to obtain an ID or as supplemental documentation for voting purposes for those individuals whose ID includes a mailing address rather than a residential address.
While I certainly agree that laws should not "suddenly appear" just before the election cycle, that's now that happened here.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI applaud your recognizing this isn't as big a problem as it was made out to be, but I don't think you have addressed (get it? ) the fact that utility bills would have a "service address" on them, therefore, utility bills were listed as acceptable documentation.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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