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Warren calls Trumps bluff, proves native american heritage.

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  • #76
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    What she "proved" is that she may have a very distant ancestor that was indigenous to North or even South America and has considerably less native American ancestry than the typical white American does. Calling herself a Native American as she has done in the past -- based largely on her "high cheekbones" (talk about your racial stereotyping) -- and used it to advance her career and profit by it, is not in any way alleviated by this stunt.
    I don't think we can actually prove that last point, can we? The "advanced her career and profit" by it?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
      One difference between the terms you list here and Redskins is that Indians, Chiefs, Apaches, and Seminoles are all, in and of themselves, neutral terms. No one really cares if you use those terms generally (outside of maybe the people who insist you use "Native American" rather than "Indian" I suppose). Redskin, however, is an outright pejorative.

      That said, and admittedly speaking as a non-Native American, I don't really have much of an issue with the team names outside of perhaps Redskins. Chief Wahoo really should be retired completely, though, that's just uncomfortable to look at.
      It seems that Native Americans disagree

      Source: New poll finds 9 in 10 Native Americans aren’t offended by Redskins name


      Nine in 10 Native Americans say they are not offended by the Washington Redskins name, according to a new Washington Post poll that shows how few ordinary Indians have been persuaded by a national movement to change the football team’s moniker.

      The survey of 504 people across every state and the District reveals that the minds of Native Americans have remained unchanged since a 2004 poll by the Annenberg Public Policy Center found the same result. Responses to The Post’s questions about the issue were broadly consistent regardless of age, income, education, political party or proximity to reservations.

      Among the Native Americans reached over a five-month period ending in April, more than 7 in 10 said they did not feel the word “Redskin” was disrespectful to Indians. An even higher number — 8 in 10 — said they would not be offended if a non-native called them that name.


      The results — immediately celebrated by team owner Daniel Snyder and denounced by prominent Native American leaders — could make it that much harder for anti-name activists to pressure Redskins officials, who are already using the poll as further justification to retain the moniker. Beyond that, the findings might impact the ongoing legal battle over the team’s federal trademark registrations and the eventual destination of the next stadium. The name controversy has clouded talks between the team and the District, widely considered Snyder’s desired destination.

      “The Washington Redskins team, our fans and community have always believed our name represents honor, respect and pride,” the owner said in a statement. “Today’s Washington Post polling shows Native Americans agree. We are gratified by this overwhelming support from the Native American community, and the team will proudly carry the Redskins name.”

      But Suzan Harjo, the lead plaintiff in the first case challenging the team’s trademark protections, dismissed The Post’s findings.




      Source

      © Copyright Original Source



      [*Story continues at the link above*]

      The article notes how "the general public appears to object more strongly to the name than Indians do."

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I don't think we can actually prove that last point, can we? The "advanced her career and profit" by it?
        You mean used it to help obtain jobs by folks eager to demonstrate cultural diversity?

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
          The Cherokee Nation's statement on the subject is relevant, I think.

          Source: Cherokee Nation Secretary of State


          "A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America," Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. said. "Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."

          © Copyright Original Source

          The takeaway point is bolded.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            You mean used it to help obtain jobs by folks eager to demonstrate cultural diversity?
            She definitely listed it on forms and stuff, but I thought one of the fact checkers disputed that it ever actually benefited her.

            HOWEVER -- she's using it to advance.....


            nervermind.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              The takeaway point is bolded.
              I didn’t bother emphasizing any of it, as I thought the statement stood well on its own.
              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
                Warren proves her claims of native American decent are true...
                If you think that's what she proved, well...
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  This thread is hilarious. Warren proves her claims of native American decent are true, which many people here and elsewhere had mocked her for. And instead of contrite apologies, the conservative posters' reactions have been the kind that might make a casual reader of the thread think her claims had been disproven rather than proven. The unintentional self-parody from you guys is hilarious.
                  We’re mocking her because she’s less of one than the average American is. I’m more of one than she is, so it’s a bit of a stretch for her to even attempt to claim to be one.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    This thread is hilarious. Warren proves her claims of native American decent are true, which many people here and elsewhere had mocked her for. And instead of contrite apologies, the conservative posters' reactions have been the kind that might make a casual reader of the thread think her claims had been disproven rather than proven. The unintentional self-parody from you guys is hilarious.
                    Trump now owes one million dollars to charity. Trump said he would give $1 million to charity if Elizabeth Warren took a DNA test. Now she wants him to pay up. Will he, of course not because he's a loud-mouthed liar. We all know that.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      Trump now owes one million dollars to charity. Trump said he would give $1 million to charity if Elizabeth Warren took a DNA test. Now she wants him to pay up. Will he, of course not because he's a loud-mouthed liar. We all know that.
                      And ANOTHER ignorant furriner speaks! You'd think he'd hesitate after seeing how well the first went over.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        Spin, spin,spin.
                        It doesn't speak well when a simple recitation of the facts causes this reaction.

                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          It doesn't speak well when a simple recitation of the facts causes this reaction.

                          Jim
                          What facts?

                          Let's look at your post:

                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          It shows that between 6 and 10 generations ago, she has a Native American ancestor.
                          No, it shows that between 6 and 10 generations ago she might have a Columbian, Peruvian, or Mexican ancestor that might share genetic markers with Native Americans.

                          It doesn't show that she had one... it shows that it is highly, highly likely that she did not.

                          There is no fixed value. 1/32 is the minimum required to claim native American status and is a little over 3%. I have that but I've never claimed it. But I know my family tree. A DNA test is going to show how much of that DNA made it into her unique person, it can't prove exactly how recent that ancestor was.
                          Apparently people that do this for a living disagree. It can't prove exactly, but it can apparently provide a degree of certainty that allows for minimum and maximum generational distance.

                          It shows she isn't 'making it up', but it also shows the ancestor is earlier than her great-great grandma or grandpa.
                          She claimed her parents eloped because her mother was Cherokee and her father's family was racist. Her DNA test shows definitively her mother was not Cherokee.

                          She may not have lied, but she has been claiming Cherokee ancestry based on nothing more than family legend. At best, she believed her parents and they lied to her. At worst, she made it up and is a white woman riding the coattails of the Cherokee people and using their culture and history to her advantage.

                          At this point, she is no better than Rachel Dolezal and deserves as much ridicule.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Alsharad View Post
                            What facts?

                            Let's look at your post:



                            No, it shows that between 6 and 10 generations ago she might have a Columbian, Peruvian, or Mexican ancestor that might share genetic markers with Native Americans.

                            It doesn't show that she had one... it shows that it is highly, highly likely that she did not.



                            Apparently people that do this for a living disagree. It can't prove exactly, but it can apparently provide a degree of certainty that allows for minimum and maximum generational distance.



                            She claimed her parents eloped because her mother was Cherokee and her father's family was racist. Her DNA test shows definitively her mother was not Cherokee.

                            She may not have lied, but she has been claiming Cherokee ancestry based on nothing more than family legend. At best, she believed her parents and they lied to her. At worst, she made it up and is a white woman riding the coattails of the Cherokee people and using their culture and history to her advantage.

                            At this point, she is no better than Rachel Dolezal and deserves as much ridicule.
                            Thanks. That was a well reasoned reply. "Spin spin spin" was just trash and is indicative of the depth of the polarization and lack of rational thought dividing this website and the country.

                            As I understand it, the cherokee nation itself is not impressed. She needs documentation if she wants to claim Native American ancestry. Not sure how much as I never pursued it myself. I tend to think personally that claiming one is native American with 1/32 ancestry is in most cases quite a stretch. But I don't know her story. I would be willing to bet it is less on the lines of something abusive and more along the lines of family heritage and pride, which is why I get disgusted at the sharks feeding on this sort of backwoods gossip.


                            Jim
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              Trump now owes one million dollars to charity.
                              No, he doesn't.

                              Trump said he would give $1 million to charity if Elizabeth Warren took a DNA test.
                              There's a reason you don't use a direct quote, and supply your own twisted version of what he said. How bout doing a little honest research for a change and supplying the exact quote?

                              Now she wants him to pay up. Will he, of course not because he's a loud-mouthed liar. We all know that.
                              Will you continue to pervert the truth and replace fact with fiction? Of course you will. We all know that.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Again, here is the actual quote:

                                "Let’s say I’m debating Pocahontas . . . we will say, ‘I will give you $1 million to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.'"


                                Now, if Trump had said "I will give you $1 million to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you have a teensie weensie little bit of INDIAN DNA",

                                THEN he would owe $1 million to Warren's favorite charity.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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