Khashoggi

[firstfloor]

The state of affairs seems to be that the USA has entered into a conspiracy with Saudi Arabia to cover up the true facts and MbS’s involvement in the murder. No doubt Turkey will be under enormous pressure to keep quiet and it remains to be seen how this will play out.

Trump’s anti-free press propaganda and the support of his white supremacist ‘base’ means that they have Khashoggi’s blood on their hands and they will want to bury the story as soon as possible.

[One Bad Pig]

What would convince you that he was murdered? At the moment I believe that the Saudi Government has blamed it on rebels for example, but naturally this changes as pressure is applied to their government by the west.

If it was shown that Saudi had him killed, what do you think the response by the west should be? Your country and mine make a lot of money selling weapons to them. Should we cancel the contracts? Morally it would be about time, but is one man worth the hit to profit?

The evidence thus far seems to point to him being killed by Saudis. As columnist Marc Thiessen observed last week, this really puts Trump in a bind; the Saudis lead one of two power blocs in the region (the other being led by Iran). We already have sanctions in place against Iran, and alienating the Saudis over this means we'd have no way to positively guide forces in the region. MBS has a chokehold on the succession, so he's not going anywhere.

[One Bad Pig]

The state of affairs seems to be that the USA has entered into a conspiracy with Saudi Arabia to cover up the true facts and MbS’s involvement in the murder. No doubt Turkey will be under enormous pressure to keep quiet and it remains to be seen how this will play out.

Trump’s anti-free press propaganda and the support of his white supremacist ‘base’ means that they have Khashoggi’s blood on their hands and they will want to bury the story as soon as possible.

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist, ff. JimL probably even takes your fantasy seriously.

[Sparko]

What's obvious is that you don't trust the lying Saudi's any more than you say that you trust the lying Trump, the point being that in either case you just don't care so long as they're perceived to be on the same evil tyrannical sociopathic team, i.e. your team. Tell us what you believe CP. Do you believe the Saudi's and the Prince (MBS) are guilty of premeditated murder, or do you believe their continuously changing story about Khasshoggi being alive and leaving through the back door of the Embassy, or how about their secondary story, their admittance of his being dead, murdered by rogue actors, or their even newer version of it being an accident, that he died in a fight, a choke hold, and there just happened to be a doctor there with a bone saw so they chopped him up and took him out in pieces to cover up the accidental killing. Which story do you believe, CP?

The above is why nobody listens to what you and Tassman have to say. You are not here for a discussion at all, you just want to twist anything anyone says into something you can complain about. CP has already said that he believes the Saudi's most likely tortured and killed the guy and that they need to produce the body if they want to claim otherwise. Looking at the body a coroner would be able to tell if he was tortured. And if he was dismembered that shows that they were trying to cover it up.

[JimL]

The above is why nobody listens to what you and Tassman have to say. You are not here for a discussion at all, you just want to twist anything anyone says into something you can complain about. CP has already said that he believes the Saudi's most likely tortured and killed the guy and that they need to produce the body if they want to claim otherwise. Looking at the body a coroner would be able to tell if he was tortured. And if he was dismembered that shows that they were trying to cover it up.

Oh I see, so you guys are willing to accept what you truly believe to be a lie, to accept what the circumstancial evidence shows to be a lie, unless it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a lie? It's no wonder Trump can get away with lying to you bunch the way he does.

Hey, did you know that he is coming out with a new middle class tax cut by nov. 1st, just in time for the election, even though Congress isn't even in session. I guess he realizes now that some people are waking up to the facade of his previous tax cut. No, I don't mean you, you're an easy mark. So now he is going to lie to you about a real tax cut, one that will actually benefit the middle class, in order to get dumbells to vote for him.

[Cow Poke]

IOW you have nothing to contribute to the discussion that hasn't already been said.

Well, you ignore what I say, post a bunch of drama queen idiocy, then make stupid comments like this, so...

[Cow Poke]

The above is why nobody listens to what you and Tassman have to say. You are not here for a discussion at all, you just want to twist anything anyone says into something you can complain about. CP has already said that he believes the Saudi's most likely tortured and killed the guy and that they need to produce the body if they want to claim otherwise. Looking at the body a coroner would be able to tell if he was tortured. And if he was dismembered that shows that they were trying to cover it up.

Yup, perhaps Jimmy and Tassy didn't understand the "habeas corpus" I posted much earlier in the thread.

[Sparko]

Oh I see, so you guys are willing to accept what you truly believe to be a lie, to accept what the circumstancial evidence shows to be a lie, unless it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a lie? It's no wonder Trump can get away with lying to you bunch the way he does.

Hey, did you know that he is coming out with a new middle class tax cut by nov. 1st, just in time for the election, even though Congress isn't even in session. I guess he realizes now that some people are waking up to the facade of his previous tax cut. No, I don't mean you, you're an easy mark. So now he is going to lie to you about a real tax cut, one that will actually benefit the middle class, in order to get dumbells to vote for him.

What are you even going on about JimL? Cow Poke agreed that it looks like the Saudi Prince tortured and murdered this guy. And yet you still want to argue some nonsense about Trump. it's like you don't even read what anyone else posts.

Or do you expect everyone to just blindly believe everything without any evidence at all? Which is pretty much how you operate. You choose a position, decide to believe it, and then no matter what, that is your "truth" and nothing can change your mind.

[Leonhard]

So lets say it happened. Should it have any consequences? I don't mind the US not reacting right away, but waiting for an opportunity to make their disapproval known. Trump is known for saying one thing about a political leader in public, but doing things differently behind the scenes.

Lets say, that it happened as reported. Saudi men kidnapped an American journalist who was critical of the regime, tortured him to death, recorded it and leaked the recording of the persons screams. Should this have any consequences?

[Sparko]

So lets say it happened. Should it have any consequences? I don't mind the US not reacting right away, but waiting for an opportunity to make their disapproval known. Trump is known for saying one thing about a political leader in public, but doing things differently behind the scenes.

Lets say, that it happened as reported. Saudi men kidnapped an American journalist who was critical of the regime, tortured him to death, recorded it and leaked the recording of the persons screams. Should this have any consequences?

of course. The Saudi's should put the prince in prison if they want serve justice and to have good relations with the rest of the world and the USA.

[Cow Poke]

So lets say it happened. Should it have any consequences? I don't mind the US not reacting right away, but waiting for an opportunity to make their disapproval known. Trump is known for saying one thing about a political leader in public, but doing things differently behind the scenes.

I think you'll find that pretty universal in international "diplomacy", though Trump isn't quite as diplomatic at it.

Example - Israel destroys nuke site in Iran:
US Public Statement could be mild condemnation.
US Private communication is high-fiving like crazy.

[Leonhard]

I think you'll find that pretty universal in international "diplomacy", though Trump isn't quite as diplomatic at it.

Example - Israel destroys nuke site in Iran:
US Public Statement could be mild condemnation.
US Private communication is high-fiving like crazy.

I have no expectations of Trump, he's a bit of a lose gun that occasionally signs the right things that the Republicans put on his table. The question here isn't what he'd do, but what you think should happen. A foreign nation tortures an american journalist today, because of how he was critical of the regime. All while he was visiting a different country.

Does this go unpunished? Or does the 24 billion dollars the US Industrial Military Complex received pay for that?

[Leonhard]

of course. The Saudi's should put the prince in prison if they want serve justice and to have good relations with the rest of the world and the USA.

That's a bit more than I expected, but yes I agree that them not doing that should hurt their relationship with the US and Europe at least.

[Sparko]

carp mentioned that no one is condemning Pat Robertson. I looked it up. He is saying we shouldn't risk a 100 billion dollar arms deal with Saudi over one man.

I hereby condemn that statement as wrong. I think Pat Robertson is a conspiracy nutjob end-times freakshow. He is not as bad as some of the televangelists that just try to scam money for faith healings and such. He actually believes what he spouts, but he is crazy.

There.

If the Saudi's did this to the journalist, the Prince and his goons should be punished.

[Cow Poke]

I have no expectations of Trump, he's a bit of a lose gun that occasionally signs the right things that the Republicans put on his table. The question here isn't what he'd do, but what you think should happen. A foreign nation tortures an american journalist today, because of how he was critical of the regime. All while he was visiting a different country.

There's actually a bit of controversy over whether this guy was actually a "journalist" -- but he certainly didn't deserve to be tortured and murdered.

Does this go unpunished?

Shouldn't!

Or does the 24 billion dollars the US Industrial Military Complex received pay for that?

Of course not - I'd think that part of the 'punishment' should be that the Saudis be forced to finally denounce and disband their own radical Islamist elements while claiming to be working with us in "fighting terrorism".