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Khashoggi

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  • #46
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Well yeah, you can bet that what Trump says in public is not what he say or does in private. We've been trying to make that clear to ya'll for years now. The guy is a pathological liar. But this isn't about him lying just yet, he's not only a liar, but he's calculating, so he is trying to defend his tyrannous Saudi benefactor as if perhaps he had nothing to do with Khashoggi's murder, that these 15 Saudi's were rogue actors who carried out this murder on their own, without MBS's say so. Even Trump isn't that dumb though, he just thinks you are!
    wait. so is he lying or not when he is defending the 'Saudi benefactor?' Your conspiracy theories are getting all twisted up.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      The whole side of the barn? Maybe you were aiming at a different target.
      It does look like some sort of misunderstanding. A world’s cop first of all has to sign up to and follow international law if he is to be taken seriously by those who would flout such laws. The USA is big enough to play cop or bully. World bully is not respectable.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        It does look like some sort of misunderstanding. A world’s cop first of all has to sign up to and follow international law if he is to be taken seriously by those who would flout such laws. The USA is big enough to play cop or bully. World bully is not respectable.
        You're assuming a bunch of things here, none of which manage to answer rogue's question: regardless of the USA's size, does the world WANT it to play world cop?

        Keep trying. I'm sure you'll manage eventually, even if by accident.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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        • #49
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          You're assuming a bunch of things here, none of which manage to answer rogue's question: regardless of the USA's size, does the world WANT it to play world cop?

          Keep trying. I'm sure you'll manage eventually, even if by accident.
          For starters, it wasn’t actually a question. I said I did not know what the left thought about it.

          After the Second World War the USA was the only country able to perform a leadership role to bring about a rules based system that would prevent further wars, particularly in Europe. The need for strong and just leadership persists. But there are serious doubts about the USA’s morality as we know from many foreign misadventures.

          I don’t see any sign that the US is capable of world class leadership at the moment. There are plenty of problems needing fixed. Someone else will step forward, maybe China. Remember that a good leader is loved. Do you feel loved by the rest of the world?
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            For starters, it wasn’t actually a question. I said I did not know what the left thought about it.

            After the Second World War the USA was the only country able to perform a leadership role to bring about a rules based system that would prevent further wars, particularly in Europe. The need for strong and just leadership persists. But there are serious doubts about the USA’s morality as we know from many foreign misadventures.

            I don’t see any sign that the US is capable of world class leadership at the moment. There are plenty of problems needing fixed. Someone else will step forward, maybe China. Remember that a good leader is loved. Do you feel loved by the rest of the world?
            We've been more or less (with more being far more often) resented since WWII largely for sticking our nose into the affairs of other nations

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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            • #51
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              We've been more or less (with more being far more often) resented since WWII largely for sticking our nose into the affairs of other nations
              Yes, but that’s not leadership. When a leader leads he should be interested in the development, not exploitation, of those he leads.
              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
              “not all there” - you know who you are

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                We've been more or less (with more being far more often) resented since WWII largely for sticking our nose into the affairs of other nations
                When it comes to insane interventions in places like Iraq and Vietnam, certainly. But, in the main, the US initiatives in forming and supporting say, NATO the US has been instrumental in maintaining world peace and preventing another world war...which is in everyone's best interests, including those of the USA..
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  Honestly, I doubt that would be a bigger factor than the importance of SA to our overall policy in that region, and the effect SA can have on energy prices if we punish them and they retaliate.

                  It really is a mess.

                  We need to just bite the bullet and exile that greasy little turd Kushner to Outer Slobovia for a while and tell SA that either MBS is removed -- at least from any position of power, preferably from breathing -- or we're cutting ties with SA. Let things fall as they will.
                  How could you be so cruel to Outer Slobovia?

                  I agree that, at the very least, if the US is to maintain any credibility as moral nation grounded in the rule of law, then the Crown Prince must go.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Rants about Trump conspiracies aside.

                    If what is said is true, then it is a significant crime. I sympathise with Rogue06 who asks if the US really should be the police of the world. And I agree it shouldn't. This journalist likely knew the risks involved in criticising a powerful dictatorship. I think he was being heroic in doing so.

                    There are however ways it can have consequences. For instance the US has a lucrative arms deal with the Saudi's. They could perhaps threaten to stop the flow of weapons of superior quality.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      When it comes to insane interventions in places like Iraq and Vietnam, certainly. But, in the main, the US initiatives in forming and supporting say, NATO the US has been instrumental in maintaining world peace and preventing another world war...which is in everyone's best interests, including those of the USA..
                      I wonder if your buddy starlight would agree with that assessment.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        How could you be so cruel to Outer Slobovia?

                        I agree that, at the very least, if the US is to maintain any credibility as moral nation grounded in the rule of law, then the Crown Prince must go.
                        So... the U.S. ought to be in the business of deposing world leaders that we don't like?

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          So... the U.S. ought to be in the business of deposing world leaders that we don't like?
                          wasn't he just complaining about Russia interfering with US politics? Now he wants the USA to be the world's policemen and assassins.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            wasn't he just complaining about Russia interfering with US politics? Now he wants the USA to be the world's policemen and assassins.
                            You pseudo christians have learned well how to twist ones words, i.e. to spin, which you call interpretation. The Saudi's brutally tortured and murdered this man who took a stance against the tyranny taking place in his own country. As Americans, or believers in democracy and freedom, you should be proud of such a one, instead of making excuses for his murderers. What Tass et al are saying is that the U.S. should condemn and exact consequences, political and or economic, on those who would use their power thusly. No one has said anything about assasination or about being the worlds police.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              You pseudo christians have learned well how to twist ones words,

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Aside from the fact that nobody has seen Khashoggi since he's entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul is there really any actual evidence he was killed, much less in the gruesome manner suggested? So far I haven't been able to find that any solid evidence has been offered in spite of the Erdoğan Administration saying they would produce it some 17 days ago. There has also been a lot of speculation about his smart watch being used to transmit his murder to the cloud or to his phone (which his fiance had) and bizarre claims that it was all videotaped as "proof" of the act (since the claim is that his dismembered body was smuggled out piece by piece it would seem that would be all that was needed). To date it seems that everything is what they "suspect" happened and what Turkish officials "believe" may have happened.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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