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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    I think Pat Robertson is a conspiracy nutjob end-times freakshow.
    What are you talking about. He commanded a hurricane not to hit America.

    Source: Pat Robertson

    In the name of Jesus, you Hurricane Florence, we speak to you in the name of Jesus, and we command the storm to cease its forward motion and go harmlessly into the Atlantic. Go up north away from land and veer off in the name of Jesus. We declare in the name of the lord that you shall go no farther, you shall do no damage in this area.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Comment


    • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      So lets say it happened. Should it have any consequences? I don't mind the US not reacting right away, but waiting for an opportunity to make their disapproval known. Trump is known for saying one thing about a political leader in public, but doing things differently behind the scenes.

      Lets say, that it happened as reported. Saudi men kidnapped an American journalist who was critical of the regime, tortured him to death, recorded it and leaked the recording of the persons screams. Should this have any consequences?
      It wasn't an American journalist; it was a Saudi journalist who resided here because it wasn't safe for him to stay in SA.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        of course. The Saudi's should put the prince in prison if they want serve justice and to have good relations with the rest of the world and the USA.
        That of course will never happen. Practically speaking the best we can hope for that he is publicly disgraced and removed from the line of succession.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Here's some interesting commentary on this....

          So what about Jamal Khashoggi? Yes, it is now clear that Saudi Arabian man was murdered. But what are the facts of his death and do they matter to you? Or to America?

          First things first. It is important to understand that Khashoggi—whose name the mainstream media seems to be having such difficulty pronouncing, even though no one had any difficulty for decades with his uncle Adnan Khashoggi, the late billionaire arms dealer—was neither an American nor was he strictly speaking a journalist.

          Khashoggi was a Saudi national who recently moved to the United States. How a man with his past obtained a green card from the State Department is another interesting question, and more on that momentarily.

          Secondly, he was not a journalist. At least not in any conventional sense of the word.

          Journalists have a beat. Journalists are accredited and cover news stories, from the local police blotter to the White House. Khashoggi was a newly minted U.S.-based commentator, an opinion piece writer, after having spent much of his life as a subject about which journalists write (he was a friend of the Osama bin Laden family and an activist for a decidedly dark cause). To call him a journalist would be just a wrong as calling me a journalist on account of the opinion pieces I write.

          So, ask yourself, why does the mainstream media complex almost exclusively refer to him as a journalist?

          These may seem to be technical mistakes but when added to the hagiography and selective coverage of Khashoggi’s past now flooding the media, it is obvious this is no accident.

          Take the U.S. newspaper where Khashoggi had published his commentary, the Washington Post. With a straight face its employees have lavished praise on the missing Saudi national, lauding him as a champion of free speech and democracy.

          “Free speech” and “democracy?” This is a man who was a fully paid up member of the Muslim Brotherhood, the ideological mothership that gave us Hamas, al-Qaeda, and, eventually, the Islamic State. He is the same man who, under the banner of his organization, DAWN (Democracy for the Arab World), was providing the glide path for Islamists to pervert and subvert any nascent structures of representative government in the Middle East. Shades of Orwell and 1984’s “War is Peace” Newspeak. But this time it’s “Democracy is Salafist Theocracy.”


          I'm always suspicious when the left rallies around a "martyr".
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            What are you talking about. He commanded a hurricane not to hit America.

            Source: Pat Robertson

            In the name of Jesus, you Hurricane Florence, we speak to you in the name of Jesus, and we command the storm to cease its forward motion and go harmlessly into the Atlantic. Go up north away from land and veer off in the name of Jesus. We declare in the name of the lord that you shall go no farther, you shall do no damage in this area.

            © Copyright Original Source



            well if God doesn't listen to Pat, then neither should we!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              It wasn't an American journalist; it was a Saudi journalist who resided here because it wasn't safe for him to stay in SA.
              Didn't know that details, thanks.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                What are you talking about. He commanded a hurricane not to hit America...
                I ignore him. Totally. I often cringe when I hear what he has recently said.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  It wasn't an American journalist; it was a Saudi journalist who resided here because it wasn't safe for him to stay in SA.
                  For a moment there, I was thinking... wait, SOUTH AFRICA?!?!?!
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Here's some interesting commentary on this....

                    So what about Jamal Khashoggi? Yes, it is now clear that Saudi Arabian man was murdered. But what are the facts of his death and do they matter to you? Or to America?

                    First things first. It is important to understand that Khashoggi—whose name the mainstream media seems to be having such difficulty pronouncing, even though no one had any difficulty for decades with his uncle Adnan Khashoggi, the late billionaire arms dealer—was neither an American nor was he strictly speaking a journalist.

                    Khashoggi was a Saudi national who recently moved to the United States. How a man with his past obtained a green card from the State Department is another interesting question, and more on that momentarily.

                    Secondly, he was not a journalist. At least not in any conventional sense of the word.

                    Journalists have a beat. Journalists are accredited and cover news stories, from the local police blotter to the White House. Khashoggi was a newly minted U.S.-based commentator, an opinion piece writer, after having spent much of his life as a subject about which journalists write (he was a friend of the Osama bin Laden family and an activist for a decidedly dark cause). To call him a journalist would be just a wrong as calling me a journalist on account of the opinion pieces I write.

                    So, ask yourself, why does the mainstream media complex almost exclusively refer to him as a journalist?

                    These may seem to be technical mistakes but when added to the hagiography and selective coverage of Khashoggi’s past now flooding the media, it is obvious this is no accident.

                    Take the U.S. newspaper where Khashoggi had published his commentary, the Washington Post. With a straight face its employees have lavished praise on the missing Saudi national, lauding him as a champion of free speech and democracy.

                    “Free speech” and “democracy?” This is a man who was a fully paid up member of the Muslim Brotherhood, the ideological mothership that gave us Hamas, al-Qaeda, and, eventually, the Islamic State. He is the same man who, under the banner of his organization, DAWN (Democracy for the Arab World), was providing the glide path for Islamists to pervert and subvert any nascent structures of representative government in the Middle East. Shades of Orwell and 1984’s “War is Peace” Newspeak. But this time it’s “Democracy is Salafist Theocracy.”


                    I'm always suspicious when the left rallies around a "martyr".
                    To be honest I'm suspicious of this whisper campaign against him. It's usually part and parcel of new agencies who warn of 'endangering' the 100 billion dollar arms deal. So color me skeptical as well. Other places like Times of Israel are making the claim that he was a reformer, and did good work.

                    Without being an expert on him I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      of course. The Saudi's should put the prince in prison if they want serve justice and to have good relations with the rest of the world and the USA.
                      That is highly unlikely to happen; MBS controls too much power. The best we're probably going to get is his understanding that he went too far, reining him in for the future.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                        To be honest I'm suspicious of this whisper campaign against him.
                        Whisper campaign? I'm just looking at all sides, rather than be railroaded by the MSM.

                        It's usually part and parcel of new agencies who warn of 'endangering' the 100 billion dollar arms deal. So color me skeptical as well. Other places like Times of Israel are making the claim that he was a reformer, and did good work.

                        Without being an expert on him I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
                        Like I said - any time the left rallies around a "martyr", I fee the need to do a little more checking.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I'm always suspicious when the left rallies around a "martyr".
                          Here's what Times of Israel wrote in response https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-ar...mal-khashoggi/

                          https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-ar...mal-khashoggi/

                          Source: Times of Israel

                          The Muslim Brotherhood connection

                          Some accounts in mainstream media have suggested that Khashoggi was a more complex figure than the reformer that his friends and allies have depicted.

                          “Several Muslim Brothers said this week that they always felt he was with them,” The New York Times reported, referring to the multinational Islamist group, the Muslim Brotherhood. “Many of his secular friends would not have believed it.”

                          If Khashoggi was a member of the pre-eminent Islamist organization in the Middle East, his critics charge, whitewashing that affiliation is a disservice to history, and helps elevate a group that should be marginalized.

                          “#Khashoggi did not deserve his fate,” tweeted David Reaboi, an analyst with a conservative think tank, Security Studies Group. “That said, the misrepresentation of his Islamist views as championing ‘freedom’ and ‘democracy’ is a repulsive whitewash.”
                          Protestors hold pictures of missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi during a demonstration in front of the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul on October 8, 2018, in Istanbul. (AFP Photo/Ozan Kose)

                          “[U]nless you are rooting for an Islamist Middle East, it seems doubtful that Khashoggi’s vision for the region was a big improvement over the agenda of the autocratic Saudis,” wrote Petra Marquardt-Bigman, a journalist, in an op-ed in Haaretz outlining Khashoggi’s sympathetic views on Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.

                          Tamara Cofman Wittes, a senior fellow at the Center for Middle East Policy at the Brooking Institution, knew Khashoggi for a decade. She warned against a simplistic take both on Khashoggi’s views and on the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood, she pointed out, is a presence in parliaments of US allies in the region, like Jordan, and in the governments of allies like Morocco.

                          “The Muslim Brotherhood is in the mainstream,” Wittes said, and noted that Saudi hostility to the group was recent. For decades, Saudis welcomed and promoted the group.

                          “There was nothing out of the mainstream, nothing oppositional about being sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood in Saudi Arabia until a few years ago,” she said.

                          Khashoggi, moreover, belonged to the wing of the Muslim Brotherhood that counseled advancement through civil and democratic means, she said.

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          (emphasis added)
                          Last edited by Leonhard; 10-22-2018, 11:57 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            Here's what Times of Israel wrote in response https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-ar...mal-khashoggi/

                            https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-ar...mal-khashoggi/

                            Source: Times of Israel

                            The Muslim Brotherhood connection

                            Some accounts in mainstream media have suggested that Khashoggi was a more complex figure than the reformer that his friends and allies have depicted.

                            “Several Muslim Brothers said this week that they always felt he was with them,” The New York Times reported, referring to the multinational Islamist group, the Muslim Brotherhood. “Many of his secular friends would not have believed it.”

                            If Khashoggi was a member of the pre-eminent Islamist organization in the Middle East, his critics charge, whitewashing that affiliation is a disservice to history, and helps elevate a group that should be marginalized.

                            “#Khashoggi did not deserve his fate,” tweeted David Reaboi, an analyst with a conservative think tank, Security Studies Group. “That said, the misrepresentation of his Islamist views as championing ‘freedom’ and ‘democracy’ is a repulsive whitewash.”
                            Protestors hold pictures of missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi during a demonstration in front of the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul on October 8, 2018, in Istanbul. (AFP Photo/Ozan Kose)

                            “[U]nless you are rooting for an Islamist Middle East, it seems doubtful that Khashoggi’s vision for the region was a big improvement over the agenda of the autocratic Saudis,” wrote Petra Marquardt-Bigman, a journalist, in an op-ed in Haaretz outlining Khashoggi’s sympathetic views on Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.

                            Tamara Cofman Wittes, a senior fellow at the Center for Middle East Policy at the Brooking Institution, knew Khashoggi for a decade. She warned against a simplistic take both on Khashoggi’s views and on the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood, she pointed out, is a presence in parliaments of US allies in the region, like Jordan, and in the governments of allies like Morocco.

                            “The Muslim Brotherhood is in the mainstream,” Wittes said, and noted that Saudi hostility to the group was recent. For decades, Saudis welcomed and promoted the group.

                            “There was nothing out of the mainstream, nothing oppositional about being sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood in Saudi Arabia until a few years ago,” she said.

                            Khashoggi, moreover, belonged to the wing of the Muslim Brotherhood that counseled advancement through civil and democratic means, she said.

                            © Copyright Original Source

                            Thanks
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              Here's what Times of Israel wrote in response https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-ar...mal-khashoggi/

                              https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-ar...mal-khashoggi/

                              Source: Times of Israel

                              The Muslim Brotherhood connection

                              Some accounts in mainstream media have suggested that Khashoggi was a more complex figure than the reformer that his friends and allies have depicted.

                              “Several Muslim Brothers said this week that they always felt he was with them,” The New York Times reported, referring to the multinational Islamist group, the Muslim Brotherhood. “Many of his secular friends would not have believed it.”

                              If Khashoggi was a member of the pre-eminent Islamist organization in the Middle East, his critics charge, whitewashing that affiliation is a disservice to history, and helps elevate a group that should be marginalized.

                              “#Khashoggi did not deserve his fate,” tweeted David Reaboi, an analyst with a conservative think tank, Security Studies Group. “That said, the misrepresentation of his Islamist views as championing ‘freedom’ and ‘democracy’ is a repulsive whitewash.”
                              Protestors hold pictures of missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi during a demonstration in front of the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul on October 8, 2018, in Istanbul. (AFP Photo/Ozan Kose)

                              “[U]nless you are rooting for an Islamist Middle East, it seems doubtful that Khashoggi’s vision for the region was a big improvement over the agenda of the autocratic Saudis,” wrote Petra Marquardt-Bigman, a journalist, in an op-ed in Haaretz outlining Khashoggi’s sympathetic views on Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.

                              Tamara Cofman Wittes, a senior fellow at the Center for Middle East Policy at the Brooking Institution, knew Khashoggi for a decade. She warned against a simplistic take both on Khashoggi’s views and on the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood, she pointed out, is a presence in parliaments of US allies in the region, like Jordan, and in the governments of allies like Morocco.

                              “The Muslim Brotherhood is in the mainstream,” Wittes said, and noted that Saudi hostility to the group was recent. For decades, Saudis welcomed and promoted the group.

                              “There was nothing out of the mainstream, nothing oppositional about being sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood in Saudi Arabia until a few years ago,” she said.

                              Khashoggi, moreover, belonged to the wing of the Muslim Brotherhood that counseled advancement through civil and democratic means, she said.

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              (emphasis added)
                              If the Muslim Brotherhood is "mainstream" in a number of Islamic countries that is a scary indictment of what is regarded as "mainstream" in Islam itself.

                              Btw, I think the Saudis changed their opinion about the group when they were instrumental in overthrowing Hosni Mubarak in Egypt not wanting to see such revolutions spread -- especially to Saudi Arabia
                              Last edited by rogue06; 10-22-2018, 05:04 PM.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                It wasn't an American journalist; it was a Saudi journalist who resided here because it wasn't safe for him to stay in SA.
                                Nevertheless, the US still owed him protection and is obligated to pursue justice on his behalf. “The US constitution protects any person on US soil—no matter what their status—and US citizens overseas”. “Khashoggi was living in the United States on an “O” visa, according to his employer the Washington Post. Also known as the “genius” visa, the O offers individuals of “extraordinary ability and achievement” temporary residence for up to three years. Three of Khashoggi’s children are US citizens, and he is believed to have been applying for a legal permanent residence in the US, also known as a green card”.

                                https://qz.com/1428499/jamal-khashog...-constitution/
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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