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Federal Deficit

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  • Federal Deficit

    So, the numbers continue to show that the federal deficit is ballooning. In 2009, the deficit ballooned - but we were in the grips of the worst recession since the Great Depression. Now we are in economic good times. The economy is humming. So can anyone explain why the deficit is ballooning. Could it possibly have anything to do with the Tax Cut plan...? What on earth happened to "fiscal responsibility?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    Because the Republicans are so incompetent they couldn't balance a budget if their lives depended on it?

    Because the Republicans are so corrupt they gave their rich donors MASSIVE tax cuts without being able to pay for it?

    Because the Republicans are so without-scruples that they scream blue murder if the Democrats ever spend any money and then as soon as they get in power they go on massive spending sprees racking up incredible debt?

    Pick any 3.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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    • #3
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      So, the numbers continue to show that the federal deficit is ballooning. In 2009, the deficit ballooned - but we were in the grips of the worst recession since the Great Depression. Now we are in economic good times. The economy is humming. So can anyone explain why the deficit is ballooning. Could it possibly have anything to do with the Tax Cut plan...? What on earth happened to "fiscal responsibility?
      The much vaunted buzzing Trump economy is being paid for by the national debt. All good now, but future estimates look grim.

      "The U.S. budget deficit will surpass $1 trillion by 2020, two years sooner than previously estimated, as tax cuts and spending increases signed by President Donald Trump do little to boost long-term economic growth, according to the Congressional Budget Office".

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ising-deficits
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        The much vaunted buzzing Trump economy is being paid for by the national debt. All good now, but future estimates look grim.

        "The U.S. budget deficit will surpass $1 trillion by 2020, two years sooner than previously estimated, as tax cuts and spending increases signed by President Donald Trump do little to boost long-term economic growth, according to the Congressional Budget Office".

        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ising-deficits
        The Dems should be seizing on this, but they are too disorganized to do so. Trump and the Reps basically stuffed money in the pockets of the wealthy via businesses and a reduction in the top-level tax rate (with a modest drop for everyone else to keep them happy), then signed a spending bill that increased spending. They are basically buying a healthy economy on the backs of our children and grandchildren. When the economy was in a downward spiral, I can see the need. When the economy was on a positive footing and gaining ground, doing that just so the economy could be given a jolt of nitrous is indefensible, IMO.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          The Dems should be seizing on this, but they are too disorganized to do so. Trump and the Reps basically stuffed money in the pockets of the wealthy via businesses and a reduction in the top-level tax rate (with a modest drop for everyone else to keep them happy), then signed a spending bill that increased spending. They are basically buying a healthy economy on the backs of our children and grandchildren. When the economy was in a downward spiral, I can see the need. When the economy was on a positive footing and gaining ground, doing that just so the economy could be given a jolt of nitrous is indefensible, IMO.
          Back before a company called Nortel went bankrupt, one of the last CEO's there gave every employee a not so small bonus while he gave himself a huge bonus. All the while Nortel was losing money. The happiness among the employees was ... short lived as you might guess.


          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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          • #6
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            Back before a company called Nortel went bankrupt, one of the last CEO's there gave every employee a not so small bonus while he gave himself a huge bonus. All the while Nortel was losing money. The happiness among the employees was ... short lived as you might guess.

            Jim
            It's called "appeasement." Everyone smiles at their $20/week increase and thanks Uncle Trump for the positive turn in their lives. Meanwhile, the deficit balloons, and the wealthy chuckle all the way to the bank as the rank and file and man-on-the-street defends their right to such largess. How the Republican party managed to pull such a con job over such a large segment of the population just boggles the imagination. They actually have people voting against their own best interests and the best interests of the coming generations to the significant benefit of the 1%.

            Fiscal responsibility went right out of the window. And, frankly, the Dems are not much better. If/when they return to power, they will likely continue that exact status quo.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #7

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                So, the numbers continue to show that the federal deficit is ballooning. In 2009, the deficit ballooned - but we were in the grips of the worst recession since the Great Depression. Now we are in economic good times. The economy is humming. So can anyone explain why the deficit is ballooning. Could it possibly have anything to do with the Tax Cut plan...? What on earth happened to "fiscal responsibility?
                Government spending has three components: discretionary (1.2T), mandatory(2.6T) and interest on the debt (310B). Some neglected things needed funding, so expenditures went up. Interest rates are up and national debt is up, so payments on interest are up. And tax cuts made revenue go down a bit for the near future, although it is expected to rebound some.


                Capture.JPG
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  The point, Sparko - is the trend in that end section. The deficit went nuts during the recession, then began to correct. The economy continues on an upward trend, so we SHOULD expect the deficit to continue to decrease and hopefully become a surplus at some point - so we can actually start paying back that debt. But instead, in a robust economy, the deficit is climbing again due to tax cuts that largely benefited the wealthy and a spending bill that ignored the previous tax cuts. The promise was that the growth in the economy would bring in new tax revenue. So far, that hasn't happened - and even Trump's tariffs are not offsetting the difference.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                    Government spending has three components: discretionary (1.2T), mandatory(2.6T) and interest on the debt (310B). Some neglected things needed funding, so expenditures went up. Interest rates are up and national debt is up, so payments on interest are up. And tax cuts made revenue go down a bit for the near future, although it is expected to rebound some.


                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]32204[/ATTACH]
                    That is not what the CBO is saying. They are saying the long-term is no better. In a nutshell, the tax cuts shot nitrous into the engine of the economy. Like nitrous in a vehicle - it is a quick hit and will not sustain. Most economists are saying the same thing. You cannot boost the economy long term by putting $ in the pockets of the richest. Supply-side economics doesn't work. You need demand side - and that requires $ in the pockets of the spenders - not the top 1%.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      That is not what the CBO is saying. They are saying the long-term is no better. In a nutshell, the tax cuts shot nitrous into the engine of the economy. Like nitrous in a vehicle - it is a quick hit and will not sustain. Most economists are saying the same thing. You cannot boost the economy long term by putting $ in the pockets of the richest. Supply-side economics doesn't work. You need demand side - and that requires $ in the pockets of the spenders - not the top 1%.
                      And how do you put money in the hands of the spenders? Income tax cuts. Not raising their taxes or the taxes of their employers. Or spendulus packages, which is just as bad of a nitrous shot.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think its too early to tell. I'd want at least two more years to see whether the US deficit will continue to grow.

                        And also isn't the deficit to gdp ratio a better tell than the pure deficit?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am all for a balanced budget. But congress won't do it. Too much pork. They all want to please their constituents and get a piece of the pie, and nobody wants to trim the fat.

                          Congress has more to do with the budget than Trump does - remember them holding the budget hostage? Cut spending instead of complaining about not enough taxes. We have enough taxes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            And how do you put money in the hands of the spenders? Income tax cuts. Not raising their taxes or the taxes of their employers. Or spendulus packages, which is just as bad of a nitrous shot.
                            Yes - income tax cuts...focused on the spenders. The tax cuts the Reps passed were focused on the businesses and the top earners. Business used the vast majority of the gains to pay dividends and buy back stock - all of which went to the top earners. A small fragment went to bonuses (a one time hit) and a minuscule slice went to salary increases.

                            If you're going to make a long-term impact on the economy - you're going predominantly cut taxes to the 99% and increase their spending power. That increases demand, and drives the economy. That did NOT happen with the last tax cut.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              I think its too early to tell. I'd want at least two more years to see whether the US deficit will continue to grow.

                              And also isn't the deficit to gdp ratio a better tell than the pure deficit?
                              Current projections are for continued growth.

                              As for the ratio - I am not a fan of deficits period - so the ratio is no better or worse. As long as we are in deficit territory, we are overspending. I know that I cannot spend forever without having to pay the piper. I hold the government to the same criteria. I DO think that the DEBT to GDP ratio is a good indicator of when we are in "danger" territory. The current ratio is slightly above 104%, putting it in fairly high territory (historically), but not at record levels.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment

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