Originally posted by JimL
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Origin of the Mind/Mental States
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWell what sort of "choices" would you call them seeing as you have acknowledged that our decisions are influenced by our subconscious memories of past events?
Best wishes,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostSomewhat-free-choices, I guess...“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHow can you not understand that you have to reason out the idea that observation is a way to find out facts before you can observe things to find out facts? You have to be able to think before you can come up with any sort of "scientific method"
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You cannot reason about the facts of say, the moon's existence unless you are aware that the moon exists. By definition "science is knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation.” Merriam Webster.
Thinking/reasoning always comes first. And you can't reduce it any further“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View Post
You cannot reason about the facts of say, the moon's existence unless you are aware that the moon exists. By definition "science is knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation.” Merriam Webster.
No, "awareness" based upon the observation of the world around us always comes first.
Reason is thinking, Tassman. You think before you can make any conclusions about anything. Thinking for sentient beings like humans is our primary function. We can't conclude or observe anything without reasoning first. Although with your constant denial of this basic fact I am starting to wonder about you.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou have to use reason to be AWARE.
What is the difference between say a camera that is observing things and a person who is observing things? Both are using observation. Only one is AWARE. Why? Because we can reason.
Reason is thinking, Tassman. You think before you can make any conclusions about anything.
Thinking for sentient beings like humans is our primary function. We can't conclude or observe anything without reasoning first. Although with your constant denial of this basic fact I am starting to wonder about you.Last edited by JimL; 01-07-2019, 09:49 AM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, you do not, you use your eyes to be aware.
A camera isn't observing things, the user of the camera is.
Being aware of the moon is not making conclusions about anything.
No it isn't. If you are blind and have never seen the moon, know nothing about a moon, then you can't think about the moon, but observing the moon, being aware of the moon, is not thinking/reasoning about the moon, it's just observing the moon.
Are you saying blind people can't reason?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostDefine what "observe" and "aware" mean, please.
Are you saying blind people can't reason?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou have to use reason to be AWARE. What is the difference between say a camera that is observing things and a person who is observing things? Both are using observation. Only one is AWARE. Why? Because we can reason.
Reason is thinking, Tassman. You think before you can make any conclusions about anything. Thinking for sentient beings like humans is our primary function. We can't conclude or observe anything without reasoning first. Although with your constant denial of this basic fact I am starting to wonder about you.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIt means to experience the object of awareness with the senses.
Of course not. If a blind person is told about the moon then he can think about it, but if he suddenly gained sight and looked up and saw the moon doesn't mean he is reasoning over it. He has simply become visually aware of it.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostSo awareness means awareness? Great definition JimL. Try again. What does "experience" mean? What does "observe" mean? What does "aware" mean?
And when someone tells him about it, didn't that person have to think about it first? How can he speak without thinking? And that other person had to have reasoning capabilities to even know that he was "observing" something. Thinking always comes first. That is why we are different from a camera or a frog looking at the moon. Looking at the moon doesn't suddenly generate reasoning capability in someone's head. It has to exist before he can know he is observing the moon.
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Originally posted by JimL View Postso the frog doesn't see the moon when he looks at it?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHe doesn't know it is the moon. He doesn't think at all.
So the moon is meaningless to a frog. It takes REASON to even observe the moon and be aware of it. Reason comes first. Without reason you are no more than the frog.
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