Origin of the Mind/Mental States

[JimL]

I would say the brain is the instrument of thought, the soul uses the brain to do its thinking, though I don't know how this all works.

So you're saying the soul is what, a thoughtless thing? How can the soul use the brain to think, if the soul itself doesn't think? I know, you just can't make sense of it! That's the point Lee, a soul doesn't make sense.

[lee_merrill]

The view that nature is all there is supported by objective evidence.

All sentient creatures reason and make choices based upon their reasoning, including humans. So why wouldn’t you assume at the outset, the validity of reasoning.

I do assume the validity of reasoning! It has to be a first principle. But if nature is all there is, then how is it that my thoughts are not just the sum of the atoms in my head?

You are trying to claim that Homo sapiens are somehow unique, they are not.

My arguments would apply to all reasoning creatures, who are able to understand a valid argument.

There are rational explanations for all that have been examined.

I understand the limits of this evidence and it is anecdotal at best, and does not stand the test of objective verifiable evidence.

What about the reports of events happening outside the room where the body lay?

Best wishes,
Lee

[lee_merrill]

So you're saying the soul is what, a thoughtless thing? How can the soul use the brain to think, if the soul itself doesn't think?

The soul itself thinks, using the brain if it is present, would be what I would say, though again this is basically speculation.

Blessings,
Lee

[Tassman]

The soul itself thinks, using the brain if it is present, would be what I would say, though again this is basically speculation.

It's totally speculation, a hangover from the prescientific era. There is no good reason to posit the existence of an immaterial entity such a soul supposedly interacting with a material entity such as our brain. It is a failed hypothesis.

[shunyadragon]

What about the reports of events happening outside the room where the body lay?

Best wishes,
Lee

I understand the evidence and claims, and incidents you refer to, and they remain anecdotal and not subject to objective verifiable evidence, and not falsifiable from the scientific perspective. It is not a basis to provide a convincing argument for the skeptics.

[JimL]

The soul itself thinks, using the brain if it is present, would be what I would say, though again this is basically speculation.

So you think the soul itself is a mindless entity? What then do you think that the soul does when the body and brain are no longer present? You want your speculations to make sense Lee, otherwise you have no reason to believe in them.

[Tassman]

I do assume the validity of reasoning! It has to be a first principle. But if nature is all there is, then how is it that my thoughts are not just the sum of the atoms in my head?

As with all higher creatures, our thinking and reasoning processes evolved as a survival mechanism. They do not require a “valid reasoning principle” to exist.

My arguments would apply to all reasoning creatures, who are able to understand a valid argument.

See above.

What about the reports of events happening outside the room where the body lay?

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence of such reports, but no definitive, unequivocal scientific verification. Whereas there IS a scientific explanation of how they occur:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...nd-near-death/

[Sparko]

So you think the soul itself is a mindless entity? What then do you think that the soul does when the body and brain are no longer present? You want your speculations to make sense Lee, otherwise you have no reason to believe in them.

Jim can you show me a photo of a mind? Not the brain, but the mind itself? k'thnx.

[lee_merrill]

As with all higher creatures, our thinking and reasoning processes evolved as a survival mechanism. They do not require a “valid reasoning principle” to exist.

I note that you are assuming the validity of reasoning in order to demonstrate the validity of reasoning.

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence of such reports, but no definitive, unequivocal scientific verification. Whereas there IS a scientific explanation of how they occur:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...nd-near-death/

But this does not explain how people saw events happening in other rooms.

Best wishes,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

Jim can you show me a photo of a mind? Not the brain, but the mind itself? k'thnx.

This is a foolish request there is no one claims that such a photo is possible.

You show thoughts reflected in the activity of the brain in imagery of brain activity. .

[Sparko]

This is a foolish request there is no one claims that such a photo is possible.

You show thoughts reflected in the activity of the brain in imagery of brain activity. .

But the mind is physical, right? So we should be able to see it, no?

I would also like to see a photo of an emotion too. Like love. Not someone experiencing it, but of the emotion itself. Or a concept. Like justice, or honor, that only exist in a mind.

If everything is material, it should not be a problem.

[JimL]

Jim can you show me a photo of a mind? Not the brain, but the mind itself? k'thnx.

No, I can't, and do you know why? It is because there is no such thing as a mind separate from the brain. The mind isn't some immaterial entity in its own right floating about in space somewhere or sitting in the pineal gland, a homunculous, operating the brain, the mind is simply what the brain does.

[Sparko]

No, I can't, and do you know why? It is because there is no such thing as a mind separate from the brain. The mind isn't some immaterial entity in its own right floating about in space somewhere or sitting in the pineal gland, a homunculous, operating the brain, the mind is simply what the brain does.

So the mind is immaterial then?

[shunyadragon]

But the mind is physical, right?

No, no one that I know believes the mind is physical

So we should be able to see it, no?

No we should not be able to see it.

I would also like to see a photo of an emotion too. Like love. Not someone experiencing it, but of the emotion itself. Or a concept. Like justice, or honor, that only exist in a mind.

If everything is material, it should not be a problem.

No there would not be an actual photo of an emotion. No one that I know of believes one exists.

[shunyadragon]

So the mind is immaterial then?

Yes, the mind is immaterial and originates from the material brain.

You show thoughts and emotions reflected in the activity of the brain in imagery of brain activity. .