Origin of the Mind/Mental States

[Sparko]

“Facts about the world” are based upon initial observation and awareness of the world around us. Reasoning follows on from that. What point are you trying to make with your insistence that “reason”, not “awareness”, precedes everything when manifestly it does not?

As your wise friend, JimL has said, "Reason and logic are self evidential valid methods of finding truth as has been proven throughout time. Reason is not itself something that need be proven, it's what we use to prove facts about the world."

[JimL]

Translation: "Please stop being right. We want to have the last word and you keep throwing my own words out against me proving us wrong!"

No, you just don't know to stop when your obviously wrong. Reason and Observation are two different activities.

[Tassman]

As your wise friend, JimL has said, "Reason and logic are self evidential valid methods of finding truth as has been proven throughout time. Reason is not itself something that need be proven, it's what we use to prove facts about the world."

My "wise friend, JimL is correct: "Reason and logic are self evidential valid methods of finding truth", but before reason and logic can be employed one must be aware of something about which to reason.

[JohnHermes]

The origin according to esoteric studies like hermetics, is that it's eternal. The universal mind is a timeless substrate that give rise to all the individual "I" Ego.

[Sparko]

My "wise friend, JimL is correct: "Reason and logic are self evidential valid methods of finding truth", but before reason and logic can be employed one must be aware of something about which to reason.

You have to have the ability to reason first, Tassman, or you can't be aware of anything.

[Tassman]

You have to have the ability to reason first, Tassman, or you can't be aware of anything.

Observation and awareness are the prerequisite to reasoning about things.

[Sparko]

Observation and awareness are the prerequisite to reasoning about things.

Observation and awareness require reasoning.

[JimL]

Observation and awareness require reasoning.

[Sparko]

So if you have someone in a coma, and their eyes are open, are they aware of what they are observing? Why not?

[JimL]

So if you have someone in a coma, and their eyes are open, are they aware of what they are observing? Why not?

Short answer, because they are in a coma. If they are in a coma they are not observing anything whether their eyes are open or not.

[Sparko]

Short answer, because they are in a coma. If they are in a coma they are not observing anything whether their eyes are open or not.

Because they are not conscious and cannot think or reason about what their eyes are reporting. They can't observe anything or be aware of what they are observing because they can't REASON. The eyes are still functioning, and so are the optic centers of the brain. But the thinking part is unconscious. Same if you were asleep and someone propped open your eyes. You would not observe or be aware of what your eyes were seeing. Because you are unconscious. No reasoning about what your eyes are seeing.

Reasoning is a necessary component of being aware or observing anything.

[Tassman]

Because they are not conscious and cannot think or reason about what their eyes are reporting. They can't observe anything or be aware of what they are observing because they can't REASON. The eyes are still functioning, and so are the optic centers of the brain. But the thinking part is unconscious. Same if you were asleep and someone propped open your eyes. You would not observe or be aware of what your eyes were seeing. Because you are unconscious. No reasoning about what your eyes are seeing.

Reasoning is a necessary component of being aware or observing anything.

No, "reasoning" is the active component of passive awareness. The awareness must come first.

Observation and awareness require reasoning.

Repeating your mantra ad nauseam does not make it so.

[shunyadragon]

Reasoning is a necessary component of being aware or observing anything.

No, you just don't know to stop when your obviously wrong. Reason and Observation are two different activities.

A jelly fish has primitive eyes and can observe, bur obviously it cannot reason, no brain.

[Sparko]

No, "reasoning" is the active component of passive awareness. The awareness must come first.



Repeating your mantra ad nauseam does not make it so.

That doesn't even make sense Tassman.

And you are the one repeating your mantra ad nauseum.

I can keep this up forever.

[Sparko]

A jelly fish has primitive eyes and can observe, bur obviously it cannot reason, no brain.

It doesn't observe. In order to observe something has to have reasoning capability. A jellyfish just reacts. There is no awareness or observation going on. Seeing is not observing. Observing requires a mental component.