Origin of the Mind/Mental States

[Tassman]

That doesn't even make sense Tassman.

And you are the one repeating your mantra ad nauseum.

I can keep this up forever.

So can I. Again: "Reasoning" is the active component of passive awareness. The awareness must come first". Note shunya's example of the jelly fish above. It can be aware of light but it is unable to "reason" about it.

[JimL]

It doesn't observe. In order to observe something has to have reasoning capability. A jellyfish just reacts. There is no awareness or observation going on. Seeing is not observing. Observing requires a mental component.

Time to stop digging, Sparko.

[Sparko]

So can I. Again: "Reasoning" is the active component of passive awareness. The awareness must come first". Note shunya's example of the jelly fish above. It can be aware of light but it is unable to "reason" about it.

If reasoning is the active component in awareness, then reasoning has to come first. You have to have the ability to reason before you can be aware of anything. The jellyfish is not aware of anything. It simply reacts to light like a program. It has no brain.

[Tassman]

If reasoning is the active component in awareness, then reasoning has to come first. You have to have the ability to reason before you can be aware of anything. The jellyfish is not aware of anything. It simply reacts to light like a program. It has no brain.

...and on and on it goes.

Awareness must come first. Unless one is aware of something then one cannot reason about it. Even jellyfish, although without a brain, have simple sensory organs that allow for awareness of light and smell etc. They cannot reason about what they are sensing, but they are aware of it.

[Sparko]

...and on and on it goes.

Awareness must come first. Unless one is aware of something then one cannot reason about it. Even jellyfish, although without a brain, have simple sensory organs that allow for awareness of light and smell etc. They cannot reason about what they are sensing, but they are aware of it.

They are not aware of anything. Just like you said a camera is not aware of what it is seeing. A Jellyfish has no awareness because it has no brain.

I am starting to think that is the same problem you are having.

[shunyadragon]

They are not aware of anything. Just like you said a camera is not aware of what it is seeing. A Jellyfish has no awareness because it has no brain.

I am starting to think that is the same problem you are having.

The fact thqat the Jellyfish does not have a brain is the key, as well as other animals with eyes an no brain. They are 'aware' of their surroundings and respond to that awareness, but have no brain to reason based on their awareness.

[Tassman]

They are not aware of anything. Just like you said a camera is not aware of what it is seeing. A Jellyfish has no awareness because it has no brain.

[Sparko]

The fact thqat the Jellyfish does not have a brain is the key, as well as other animals with eyes an no brain. They are 'aware' of their surroundings and respond to that awareness, but have no brain to reason based on their awareness.

They are no more aware than a photocell connected to a relay is aware Shuny. It is just a wired reaction.

[Sparko]

reflexes are not awareness. They occur without awareness, that is why they are called reflexes. The motor nerves are connected directly to the sensory nerves. It is hardwired. Awareness requires NOTICING your surrounding and that requires being conscious.

Take a basic biology class Tassman.

[shunyadragon]

They are no more aware than a photocell connected to a relay is aware Shuny. It is just a wired reaction.

. . . but they are aware and react. A photo cell does not react to the light on its own.

[Sparko]

. . . but they are aware and react. A photo cell does not react to the light on its own.

They are not aware. A photocell can be wired to a relay so that when light hits it, the relay trips. The jellyfish's nervous system does the same thing. It is not aware of anything. It is a built-in reflex/instinct. hard wired.

[shunyadragon]

They are not aware. A photocell can be wired to a relay so that when light hits it, the relay trips. The jellyfish's nervous system does the same thing. It is not aware of anything. It is a built-in reflex/instinct. hard wired.

Yes te Jellyfish is aware of the different shades of light, and can respond with movement. The photo cell is simply a mechanical object.

[Tassman]

reflexes are not awareness. They occur without awareness, that is why they are called reflexes. The motor nerves are connected directly to the sensory nerves. It is hardwired. Awareness requires NOTICING your surrounding and that requires being conscious.

or perception

[shunyadragon]

reflexes are not awareness. They occur without awareness, that is why they are called reflexes. The motor nerves are connected directly to the sensory nerves. It is hardwired. Awareness requires NOTICING your surrounding and that requires being conscious.

Take a basic biology class Tassman.

I believe in the history of you posting here you definitely need more than just one biology course. No one is claiming reflexes are awareness. Reflexes are a response to awareness

[JimL]

They are not aware. A photocell can be wired to a relay so that when light hits it, the relay trips. The jellyfish's nervous system does the same thing. It is not aware of anything. It is a built-in reflex/instinct. hard wired.

Still digging I see, eh Sparko.