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Midterms and Discord

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  • #16
    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    The one where Trump won for starters.
    See my previous response...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Are you... are you serious?
      Of course I'm serious - so, again - some data - links - justification for this claim...?
      Last edited by carpedm9587; 10-22-2018, 09:40 AM.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        2016 presidential. Folks like Robert Reich (Clinton's Secretary of Labor) and Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), Donna Brazile (Al Gore's campaign manager in 2000 and head of the Democratic National Committee) immediately spring to mind with the first two saying so repeatedly. Editorials run in the Washington Post (Trump is an illegitimate president whose election is tainted by fraud), U.S. News & World Report (The Illegitimate Victor), the Los Angeles Times (It's Becoming Clear: Trump Is an Illegitimate President[1]), the Guardian (One year on, Donald Trump is still an illegitimate president), Salon (Trump’s presidency is illegitimate) and American Prospect (An Illegitimate Presidency)... The whole "Not My President Movement" which held Not My Presidents' Day rallies in over 30 cities on Presidents' Day and the New York Times ran an editorial Not My President, Not Now, Not Ever (a Washington Post-ABC poll found that a third of "Hillary Clinton supporters say Donald Trump's presidential victory is not legitimate")

        Where have you been? Hiding under a rock?


        btw, many Democrats said the same about George W. Bush.

        1. The online version changed the title to "Was the 2016 election legitimate? It's now definitely worth asking the question" but Real Clear Politics has the story with the original title.
        I have not claimed that there were no Democrats making these noises. But the statement made was more absolute in its nature: "Took a page out of the Democrat playbook." I presume this implies there is a concerted effort by the Democratic leadership - as a formal policy of the Democratic party - to call elections illegitimate. Either that or you have data that shows that a very large majority of Democrats take this position. A handful of opinion pieces are not going to make that case. If you're going to claim "Democratic playbook" - it seems to me you need to show one of the two conditions I just outlined. Otherwise, this is just another exercise in taking the bluster of a few Democrats, and painting all Democrats with the same brush.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
          don't forget 2000 George W. Bush with the hanging chads and so called voter suppression.
          The 2000 election was razor thin, and most states have a law/policy that an election coming within 0.5% points is subject to an automatic recount, or a recount can be requested. That has been done by both parties in a wide variety of settings, and is a valid attempt to verify that the election was not miscounted putting the wrong candidate in office. That's not what we're taking about here. We're talking about a philosophy that, if I don't win - the election was invalid/illegitimate.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            The real voter suppression was the Democrat's campaign to disallow oversea military ballots since they knew the majority would be for Bush, not to mention the networks calling Florida for Gore when the polls were still open in the panhandle (a heavily Republican region) causing a large number of disappointed voters standing in line to simply leave without voting.
            Again - links? Citations?
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              The liberals made this same accusation during the Presidential Election and who were the ones trying to illegitimize the Election for the last 2 years? Who has been trying to impeach the winner? Who has been rioting in the streets?
              "The liberals" is just a broadbrush way of categorizing a large group of people so it can be dismissed. Some liberals made this accusation. It is not clear it was most or even many (relative to the total number of liberals). Data? Citations? As for the rest, what exactly has been done for the last 2 years to "illegitimize the election?" A few congressman have filed articles of impeachment, but with very little uptake on either side of the aisle, as far as I know. And while there have been a handful of riots, the vast majority of gatherings have been large and peaceful.

              You appear to be cherry-picking events to hold to your "anti-liberal" and "anti-Democrat" position. That is understandable, given your previously expressed hatred for Democrats and liberals. But it doesn't substantiate your position.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Did you just pop over here from some parallel universe? Where have you been for the last two years? The liberals have been claiming Russia owns Trump, that the election was fixed, that the popular vote should count instead of the electoral votes, trying to impeach Trump at every turn, rioting in the streets.... and you want sources? Like JimL says, go google them yourself. Your denial is bizarre.
                See my previous response.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #23
                  Seems like Kentuckians have some common sense.

                  They chased off a guy trying to harass Mitch McConnell in a restaurant. When he started heckling McConnell they told him to go away and leave him alone.


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    See my previous response.
                    your attempt to nitpick your way out of your statements? ROFL?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Seems like Kentuckians have some common sense.

                      They chased off a guy trying to harass Mitch McConnell in a restaurant. When he started heckling McConnell they told him to go away and leave him alone.

                      It's interesting to me that when someone articulating a message that is more right leaning, and they are told to stop and go away, their free speech rights are being infringed upon. But when someone is articulating a message that is more left leaning, and they are told to stop and go away, the person asking them to do so is showing "common sense."

                      for the record, I don't approve of the heckling. I think people should be more civil to one another, and protesting does not have to be "in your face" and disruptive to someone's ability to function. I think these protests should be held on the street - and I would support any restaurant's right too ask someone being disruptive to their business to leave.

                      Personally I think a more effective protest would be for people to occupy all of the other tables in the restaurant (and order food) and, at a prescribed time, go dead silent and lift signs saying, "we do not approve," or "your leadership is hypocritical" or some such. Silent - non disruptive - and clear. And the restaurant owner gets a full restaurant in the bargain!
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        your attempt to nitpick your way out of your statements? ROFL?
                        If you have nothing more substantial...
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          It's interesting to me that when someone articulating a message that is more right leaning, and they are told to stop and go away, their free speech rights are being infringed upon. But when someone is articulating a message that is more left leaning, and they are told to stop and go away, the person asking them to do so is showing "common sense."
                          I have said before, I don't think anyone should be hassled in their private life, even in public, like eating out or going to a theater. If you want to complain to your politician, either organize a legal protest with permits and such, or write them letters, or protest at their place of work.

                          Here we have a heckler disrupting McConnell's dinner, and other patrons telling him to stop. Yes that is common sense. I would do the same if someone was heckling a democrat in a restaurant. It is not only rude, but it is actually illegal to harass someone in public like that. It is disturbing the peace and verbal assault.


                          for the record, I don't approve of the heckling. I think people should be more civil to one another, and protesting does not have to be "in your face" and disruptive to someone's ability to function. I think these protests should be held on the street - and I would support any restaurant's right too ask someone being disruptive to their business to leave.
                          Even in the street is wrong unless it is a properly permitted protest march. You can't just hassle people walking down the street. If you tried that with me I would call the police on you and have you arrested.

                          Personally I think a more effective protest would be for people to occupy all of the other tables in the restaurant (and order food) and, at a prescribed time, go dead silent and lift signs saying, "we do not approve," or "your leadership is hypocritical" or some such. Silent - non disruptive - and clear. And the restaurant owner gets a full restaurant in the bargain!
                          Again, disturbing the peace and harassment.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            If you have nothing more substantial...
                            I said that the liberals were complaining about Trump winning the election and not accepting the results. You tried to nitpick your way out by saying "well not ALL liberals did that" and trying to change the topic.

                            The liberals and democrats in general, as a group, have been doing everything they can to claim the election was illegitimate. While there might be some democrats who have not, as a group they have. It's been going on for two years now. From Waters screaming "Impeach 45" and encouraging harassing people on the street, to a liberal shooting at republicans at a baseball game, to antifa beating on republicans and burning cars and trying to stop conservatives from speaking, to the widespread complaint about the popular vote vs the electoral vote, to some representatives actually trying to start impeachment papers on Trump, to forcing an investigation of Trump's campaign.

                            And once again, it seems that the Democrats are trying to accuse Trump of not accepting the election results if they turn against him. HA!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                I have not claimed that there were no Democrats making these noises. But the statement made was more absolute in its nature: "Took a page out of the Democrat playbook." I presume this implies there is a concerted effort by the Democratic leadership - as a formal policy of the Democratic party - to call elections illegitimate. Either that or you have data that shows that a very large majority of Democrats take this position. A handful of opinion pieces are not going to make that case. If you're going to claim "Democratic playbook" - it seems to me you need to show one of the two conditions I just outlined. Otherwise, this is just another exercise in taking the bluster of a few Democrats, and painting all Democrats with the same brush.
                                Saying something comes from a playbook doesn't mean that there is a concerted effort by every single person but rather it is a tactic that is employed. It was employed in 2000 and much more widely in 2016

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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