Midterms and Discord

[Sparko]

Actually - there are many "undocumented immigrants" that are here perfectly legally. It happens when they cross at legal check points and apply for asylum. Whie they are awaiting their asylum hearing - they are undocumented immigrants.

But even those undocumented immigrants who cross the border illegally and go into hiding - while they broke the law crossing the border, there is still no law that says they cannot participate as a volunteer in pretty much anything. There IS a law that says they cannot vote. There are laws about not hiring them for work. There is no law that says they cannot volunteer. Engaging them is politically stupid - and it's dangerous for the undocumented immigrant who is exposing themselves - but it's not illegal.

I love it. No matter what anyone says, you just HAVE to find a way to be right, even when you have to stretch the circumstances "Actually - there are many "undocumented immigrants" that are here perfectly legally." ROFL.

You just love to argue Carp. Like your convoluted reasoning with OBP about flag burning. Can't just say, "you are right. I was wrong" - nope, you have to make up strange motivations for flag burners to keep from admitting OBP is correct.

[Roy]

The funny thing is, is that the democrats actually have reason to call the elections into question, not because the voting systems are somehow rigged, but because of the suppression tactics carried out by republicans all around the country. Once republicans take over a state legislature they immediately go to work enacting voter suppression laws and doing extreme gerrymandering of districts wherin even though more people vote democrat, just as is the case nationally, the state houses remain in republican control.

The democrats do the same. I can't understand why the voters let them get away with it.

[JimL]

The democrats do the same. I can't understand why the voters let them get away with it.

Democrats don't enact voter suppression laws, and their gerrymandering districts, which though legal, should be accomplished by neutral parties, does not go to the extreme ridiculous and obvious way that republicans do for which they have been challenged in court for, and have lost.

[carpedm9587]

I love it. No matter what anyone says, you just HAVE to find a way to be right, even when you have to stretch the circumstances "Actually - there are many "undocumented immigrants" that are here perfectly legally." ROFL.

Well, it's kind of hard to argue with the facts.

You just love to argue Carp.

Of course I like a spirited debate. Why would anyone post here if they didn't?

Like your convoluted reasoning with OBP about flag burning. Can't just say, "you are right. I was wrong" - nope, you have to make up strange motivations for flag burners to keep from admitting OBP is correct.

On this incorrect mind-reading, I have no further observation except to note the multiple times I have acknowledged error when that error has been adequately demonstrated. When it has not...

[Sparko]

Breaking News! Trump says he agrees with Obama 100% on immigration policy!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...gration-policy

[carpedm9587]

Democrats don't enact voter suppression laws, and their gerrymandering districts, which though legal, should be accomplished by neutral parties, does not go to the extreme ridiculous and obvious way that republicans do for which they have been challenged in court for, and have lost.

Jim, I think a good argument can be made that the only reason Democrats did not gerrymander to the extent Republicans did was that they never made a focused effort to secure the widespread legislative control they would need to do so. I fully expect them to make every effort to try to fix that in the coming years.

Here's the problem Republicans and conservatives face: they taught the Democrats a powerful lesson, but they lack the numbers to sustain their initiative. Most of this country is not conservative - it's liberal/progressive/moderate. Democrats outnumber Republicans 44M to 32M. So when Democrats begin applying the techniques they learned from the Republicans in 2018, and which the Republicans have successfully pushed to make "legal" via SCOTUS, their superior numbers will make a significant difference. If the Democrats can take the House in 2018 when it is so badly gerrymandered, keeping it when it is not will not be a major issue. The Senate is harder because there are simply more red states than blue states, so the Senate will likely always be a contest, unless democrats can successfully get DC and Puerto Rico to become states.

I don't outline any of this with any joy. It's a sign of a broken system when this kind of political maneuvering drives our system. But I am not naive enough to think it will ever significantly change (much as I wish it would).

[Cow Poke]

Breaking News! Trump says he agrees with Obama 100% on immigration policy!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...gration-policy

Excellent! I wonder who tweeted that for him.

[JimL]

Jim, I think a good argument can be made that the only reason Democrats did not gerrymander to the extent Republicans did was that they never made a focused effort to secure the widespread legislative control they would need to do so. I fully expect them to make every effort to try to fix that in the coming years.

Here's the problem Republicans and conservatives face: they taught the Democrats a powerful lesson, but they lack the numbers to sustain their initiative. Most of this country is not conservative - it's liberal/progressive/moderate. Democrats outnumber Republicans 44M to 32M. So when Democrats begin applying the techniques they learned from the Republicans in 2018, and which the Republicans have successfully pushed to make "legal" via SCOTUS, their superior numbers will make a significant difference. If the Democrats can take the House in 2018 when it is so badly gerrymandered, keeping it when it is not will not be a major issue. The Senate is harder because there are simply more red states than blue states, so the Senate will likely always be a contest, unless democrats can successfully get DC and Puerto Rico to become states.

I don't outline any of this with any joy. It's a sign of a broken system when this kind of political maneuvering drives our system. But I am not naive enough to think it will ever significantly change (much as I wish it would).

Sure, but you're proving my point. If the minority party, the republicans, have taught the majority party, the democrats, a powerful lesson here, then it is the republicans who are the guilty party here, not the democrats.

[Sparko]

Excellent! I wonder who tweeted that for him.

Bill Clinton?

[Sparko]

If the minority party, the republicans, have taught the majority party, the democrats...

Did you miss the last election, JimL?

[Roy]

Democrats don't enact voter suppression laws, and their gerrymandering districts, which though legal, should be accomplished by neutral parties, does not go to the extreme ridiculous and obvious way that republicans do for which they have been challenged in court for, and have lost.

Counterexample of extreme and ridiculous democrat gerrymandering

[Sparko]

Bill Clinton?

oh wait, Trump does agree with Bill too!

---
Obama is not the only Democrat cited by Trump and his supporters to justify crackdowns on illegal immigration. Another is former President Bill Clinton, whose State of the Union address in 1995 featured the following:

"All Americans ... are rightly disturbed by the large numbers of illegal aliens entering our country," Clinton said that night. "The jobs they hold might otherwise be held by citizens or legal immigrants. The public service they use impose burdens on our taxpayers. That's why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of new border guards, by deporting twice as many criminal aliens as ever before, by cracking down on illegal hiring, by barring welfare benefits to illegal aliens.

"We are a nation of immigrants," Clinton added. "But we are also a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...gration-policy

[Mountain Man]

Go post this somewhere:

"We are a nation of immigrants. But we are also a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."
-President Donald Trump

and watch liberal heads explode. Then once the commotion dies down, say, "Oh, sorry, that was actually President Bill Clinton!" and then watch their heads explode all over again.

[Cow Poke]

Go post this somewhere:

"We are a nation of immigrants. But we are also a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."
-President Donald Trump

and watch liberal heads explode. Then once the commotion dies down, say, "Oh, sorry, that was actually President Bill Clinton!" and then watch their heads explode all over again.

Ya know, I've often thought about that on other issues, but I think the libs and the MSM (but I repeat myself) are so hyperfocused on their agenda that they would just continue to "expose" the conservative for saying something dumb. It's that crazy.

[Mountain Man]

Or this:

"Those who enter the country illegally and those who employ them disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law. We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants into this country."
-President Donald Trump

and then quietly inform the liberal mobs that it was really Obama.