Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Seeing God's Glory in Scripture

  1. #1
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    131
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    22

    Seeing God's Glory in Scripture

    John Piper argues in his book, A Peculiar Glory, that believers in Christ know that the Bible is the word of God because they see God's glory in the Scriptures. When Jesus was on this earth, the disciples of Jesus saw Christ's glory. When believers read about Christ in the Bible, they see His glory.. When believers hear the gospel or read about the gospel in the Bible, they see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ. The Scriptures are focused on the Christ and the gospel of Christ. What do you think about this?

  2. Amen lee_merrill amen'd this post.
  3. #2
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    slave & child of Christ
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    20,597
    Amen (Given)
    15619
    Amen (Received)
    9320
    Yes.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  4. #3
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    131
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    22
    The god of this world blinds people to the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, but God can open the eyes of the spiritual blind so that they will see. This is a direct perception or apprehension of God's glory.

  5. #4
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Inside the beltway
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    20,978
    Amen (Given)
    6145
    Amen (Received)
    11768
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    The god of this world blinds people to the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, but God can open the eyes of the spiritual blind so that they will see.
    Only those who want to see.
    This is a direct perception or apprehension of God's glory.
    Moses had a direct perception of God's glory; so did the 3 disciples at the Transfiguration. A few holy people have directly perceived it since, but most people have too much sin in their lives to be able to bear its revelation.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  6. #5
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Amen (Given)
    382
    Amen (Received)
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet
    The god of this world blinds people to the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, but God can open the eyes of the spiritual blind so that they will see.
    Only those who want to see.
    But Hornet is quoting Scripture:

    "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor. 4:4)

    So they cannot see, even if they wanted to.

    "Jesus said, 'For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.' " (John 9:39)

    Moses had a direct perception of God's glory; so did the 3 disciples at the Transfiguration. A few holy people have directly perceived it since, but most people have too much sin in their lives to be able to bear its revelation.
    "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." (Rom 1:20)

    So here we have a paradox! People have seen God's power and nature from what has been made, yet they cannot see.

    "They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people." (Eze 12:2)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  7. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  8. #6
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    131
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But Hornet is quoting Scripture:

    "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor. 4:4)

    So they cannot see, even if they wanted to.

    "Jesus said, 'For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.' " (John 9:39)


    "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." (Rom 1:20)

    So here we have a paradox! People have seen God's power and nature from what has been made, yet they cannot see.

    "They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people." (Eze 12:2)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    People see certain things, but there are other things that they do not see.

    Is there a difference between seeing God's eternal power and nature, but not the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ?

  9. #7
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Amen (Given)
    382
    Amen (Received)
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Is there a difference between seeing God's eternal power and nature, but not the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ?
    Yes, everyone sees God's eternal power and nature from what has been made (Rom. 1:20), and yet only believers see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ. Our physical eyes can see what is made, but they cannot see the invisible light of the gospel.

    "Your eyes have seen all that the Lord did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those signs and great wonders. But to this day the Lord has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear." (Dt. 29:2-4)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  10. #8
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Inside the beltway
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    20,978
    Amen (Given)
    6145
    Amen (Received)
    11768
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But Hornet is quoting Scripture:

    "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor. 4:4)

    So they cannot see, even if they wanted to.
    He is quoting Scripture, and then adding his own interpretation of it.
    "Jesus said, 'For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.' " (John 9:39)


    "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." (Rom 1:20)

    So here we have a paradox! People have seen God's power and nature from what has been made, yet they cannot see.

    "They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people." (Eze 12:2)

    Blessings,
    Lee
    As far as I can tell, the 'god of this age' is the self. They do not see or hear because they do not want to. God making them see would only make them angry at Him, not make them want to serve Him - so He leaves them to their delusion.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  11. #9
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Amen (Given)
    382
    Amen (Received)
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    He is quoting Scripture, and then adding his own interpretation of it.
    Well, if they are blinded, as the verse says, then they cannot see even if they wanted to.

    As far as I can tell, the 'god of this age' is the self.
    Not the devil?

    God making them see would only make them angry at Him, not make them want to serve Him - so He leaves them to their delusion.
    But what verse speaks of God making them see, that would make them angry? We were just speaking about adding interpretations to Scripture!

    Make the heart of this people calloused;
    make their ears dull
    and close their eyes.
    Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts,
    and turn and be healed. (Isa. 6:10)

    We see here that if God were not to close their eyes, they might see and understand, and turn and be healed.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Last edited by lee_merrill; 11-10-2018 at 12:23 PM.
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  12. #10
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Near my best friend (see photo above)
    Faith
    Catholic XPian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    664
    Amen (Given)
    1911
    Amen (Received)
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, if they are blinded, as the verse says, then they cannot see even if they wanted to.


    Not the devil?


    But what verse speaks of God making them see, that would make them angry? We were just speaking about adding interpretations to Scripture!

    Make the heart of this people calloused;
    make their ears dull
    and close their eyes.
    Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts,
    and turn and be healed. (Isa. 6:10)

    We see here that if God were not to close their eyes, they might see and understand, and turn and be healed.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    STM that the key to understanding Isaiah 6.10, is to look at in its original context - as part of a description of the people of Judah and Jerusalem, “in the year that king Uzziah died” (verse 1).

    Then, to see how the passage is used in the Gospels - as in St Mark 4.11-12. It is not a general, context-free, description of human behaviour; it comes from a specific context.

    STM that v. 10 (in context, connected w/ the rest of the chapter:
    (1) contrasts “the people” & the description of them in v.10, with Isaiah’s vision, and its consequences for him;
    (2) describes what Isaiah’s preaching of the message he has just been commissioned to speak will, and “must”, bring about;
    (3) applies to the Preaching of Jesus, and of *His* apostles, the same result as the preaching of Isaiah.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •