John Piper argues in his book, A Peculiar Glory, that believers in Christ know that the Bible is the word of God because they see God's glory in the Scriptures. When Jesus was on this earth, the disciples of Jesus saw Christ's glory. When believers read about Christ in the Bible, they see His glory.. When believers hear the gospel or read about the gospel in the Bible, they see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ. The Scriptures are focused on the Christ and the gospel of Christ. What do you think about this?
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While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
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Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Seeing God's Glory in Scripture
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Originally posted by Hornet View PostThe god of this world blinds people to the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, but God can open the eyes of the spiritual blind so that they will see.
This is a direct perception or apprehension of God's glory.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostOriginally posted by HornetThe god of this world blinds people to the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, but God can open the eyes of the spiritual blind so that they will see.
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor. 4:4)
So they cannot see, even if they wanted to.
"Jesus said, 'For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.' " (John 9:39)
Moses had a direct perception of God's glory; so did the 3 disciples at the Transfiguration. A few holy people have directly perceived it since, but most people have too much sin in their lives to be able to bear its revelation.
So here we have a paradox! People have seen God's power and nature from what has been made, yet they cannot see.
"They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people." (Eze 12:2)
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut Hornet is quoting Scripture:
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor. 4:4)
So they cannot see, even if they wanted to.
"Jesus said, 'For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.' " (John 9:39)
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." (Rom 1:20)
So here we have a paradox! People have seen God's power and nature from what has been made, yet they cannot see.
"They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people." (Eze 12:2)
Blessings,
Lee
Is there a difference between seeing God's eternal power and nature, but not the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ?
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Originally posted by Hornet View PostIs there a difference between seeing God's eternal power and nature, but not the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ?
"Your eyes have seen all that the Lord did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those signs and great wonders. But to this day the Lord has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear." (Dt. 29:2-4)
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut Hornet is quoting Scripture:
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor. 4:4)
So they cannot see, even if they wanted to.
"Jesus said, 'For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.' " (John 9:39)
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." (Rom 1:20)
So here we have a paradox! People have seen God's power and nature from what has been made, yet they cannot see.
"They have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious people." (Eze 12:2)
Blessings,
LeeEnter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostHe is quoting Scripture, and then adding his own interpretation of it.
As far as I can tell, the 'god of this age' is the self.
God making them see would only make them angry at Him, not make them want to serve Him - so He leaves them to their delusion.
Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed. (Isa. 6:10)
We see here that if God were not to close their eyes, they might see and understand, and turn and be healed.
Blessings,
LeeLast edited by lee_merrill; 11-10-2018, 02:23 PM."What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostWell, if they are blinded, as the verse says, then they cannot see even if they wanted to.
Not the devil?
But what verse speaks of God making them see, that would make them angry? We were just speaking about adding interpretations to Scripture!
Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed. (Isa. 6:10)
We see here that if God were not to close their eyes, they might see and understand, and turn and be healed.
Blessings,
Lee
Then, to see how the passage is used in the Gospels - as in St Mark 4.11-12. It is not a general, context-free, description of human behaviour; it comes from a specific context.
STM that v. 10 (in context, connected w/ the rest of the chapter:
(1) contrasts “the people” & the description of them in v.10, with Isaiah’s vision, and its consequences for him;
(2) describes what Isaiah’s preaching of the message he has just been commissioned to speak will, and “must”, bring about;
(3) applies to the Preaching of Jesus, and of *His* apostles, the same result as the preaching of Isaiah.
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