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Thread: Creating God

  1. #51
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    The belief that reasoning and evidence can lead you to true beliefs about the world around you is a properly basic belief. Good job JimL, you just erased the entire structure upon which all of your knowledge about the universe and existence rested.
    My problem with PBB is that criterion used to define such a belief is often arbitrary or inconsistent.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  2. #52
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    My problem with PBB is that criterion used to define such a belief is often arbitrary or inconsistent.
    Not really. It's a pretty well understood concept in philosophy.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Not really. It's a pretty well understood concept in philosophy.
    The concept is well known, but criterion about what constitutes a PBB is arbitrary.
    Last edited by seer; 12-07-2018 at 10:39 AM.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  4. #54
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    The belief that reasoning and evidence can lead you to true beliefs about the world around you is a properly basic belief. Good job JimL, you just erased the entire structure upon which all of your knowledge about the universe and existence rested.
    Then, unlike the universe and existence, the belief in god isn't what you would call a properly basic belief.

  5. #55
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    The belief that reasoning and evidence can lead you to true beliefs about the world around you is a properly basic belief. Good job JimL, you just erased the entire structure upon which all of your knowledge about the universe and existence rested.
    Yes the belief that reasoning and evidence can lead you to true beliefs about the world around you is a properly basic belief, if you want to argue in those terms. OTOH nothing about believing in god is either proper, or basic, given that such belief is not based upon reasoning from evidence. This is obviously what Jim meant.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  6. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  7. #56
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    The concept is well known, but criterion about what constitutes a PBB is arbitrary.
    Not really.

  8. #57
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassmoron View Post
    Yes the belief that reasoning and evidence can lead you to true beliefs about the world around you is a properly basic belief, if you want to argue in those terms. OTOH nothing about believing in god is either proper, or basic, given that such belief is not based upon reasoning from evidence. This is obviously what Jim meant.
    The belief that reasoning and evidence can lead you to true beliefs can not be proven through reasoning and evidence.

    Similarly, the belief that an omnipotent Creator can and would make himself known to his creation can not be proven through reasoning and evidence.

    Nevertheless, it is rational to accept both of these beliefs as true in and of themselves.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  9. #58
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The belief that reasoning and evidence can lead you to true beliefs can not be proven through reasoning and evidence.

    Similarly, the belief that an omnipotent Creator can and would make himself known to his creation can not be proven through reasoning and evidence.

    Nevertheless, it is rational to accept both of these beliefs as true in and of themselves.
    Nonsense. What makes belief in an omnipotent creator rational? The notion is simply made up, an imagination, not evidence based!

  10. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  11. #59
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    Nonsense. What makes belief in an omnipotent creator rational? The notion is simply made up, an imagination, not evidence based!
    What makes it rational to believe that reasoning and evidence can lead you to true beliefs?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  12. #60
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The belief that reasoning and evidence can lead you to true beliefs can not be proven through reasoning and evidence.
    Reasoning and evidence can establish verifiable facts whereas faith-based beliefs which cannot.

    Similarly, the belief that an omnipotent Creator can and would make himself known to his creation can not be proven through reasoning and evidence.
    There is no similarity between fact-based beliefs and beliefs based on faith unsupported by verifiable facts.

    Nevertheless, it is rational to accept both of these beliefs as true in and of themselves.
    It is not rational to accept both of these propositions as true in and of themselves for the above reasons.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  13. Amen JimL amen'd this post.

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