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Thread: Creating God

  1. #21
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    I likewise appreciate the good discussion! It's encouraging.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  2. #22
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    I likewise appreciate the good discussion! It's encouraging.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    I have been unable to find the author's email, but I sent an email to contact@eb.com and asked them to either connect me to the author, or to pass on the question. Now we wait...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  3. Amen lee_merrill amen'd this post.
  4. #23
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    The authors theorize that what is happening can be explained by looking at trust and cohesion within the group. When groups are small, everyone knows everyone else and that familiarity makes it difficult for any one person to deceive the group or take advantage of them. But when the group grows to a point where everyone cannot possibly know everyone else, it becomes more possible for rogue elements to join the group (or arise within the group) and for them to take advantage of some or all of the group. The evolutionary response to this is the development of a religion focused on a "punisher god" that helps to restore cohesion to the group. They cite multiple parallel studies that provide some evidence for this theory.
    I'm not sure if you're offering this as an argument against the existence of God, but the problem with this and similar theories is that they don't disprove God but simply presuppose that he doesn't exist and then try to rationalize why so many people believe that he does. Richard Dawkins has attempted this same trick in several of his books.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. Amen Jedidiah, Chrawnus amen'd this post.
  6. #24
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    To put it more simply, belief in the existence of God can be readily and logically explained by the existence of God.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. #25
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I'm not sure if you're offering this as an argument against the existence of God,
    Not really - more as an argument for an alternative explanation for why humanity has the concept of a "punisher god" in so many of its main stream religions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    but the problem with this and similar theories is that they don't disprove God but simply presuppose that he doesn't exist and then try to rationalize why so many people believe that he does. Richard Dawkins has attempted this same trick in several of his books.
    I'm not sure there is any assumption that god does not exist - it is entirely possible a god exists AND this is why people believe in this particular form of punisher god. This is more a possible explanation for why people believe as they do, rather than a proof that there is no god. For the atheist, it provides an explanation for modern religious models in the absence of a god. For the theist, it will probably neither prove nor disprove anything.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  8. #26
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    To put it more simply, belief in the existence of God can be readily and logically explained by the existence of God.
    Unfortunately, this existence cannot be readily and logically explained
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  9. #27
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Unfortunately, this existence cannot be readily and logically explained
    Of course it can. Belief in God is properly basic.

    https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writ...-basic-beliefs

  10. #28
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I'm not sure there is any assumption that god does not exist - it is entirely possible a god exists AND this is why people believe in this particular form of punisher god. This is more a possible explanation for why people believe as they do, rather than a proof that there is no god. For the atheist, it provides an explanation for modern religious models in the absence of a god. For the theist, it will probably neither prove nor disprove anything.
    Here's the curious thing: you're simply describing the world as it exists and not necessarily how it would exist without God.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #29
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Of course it can. Belief in God is properly basic.

    https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writ...-basic-beliefs
    Sorry, MM, but that simply is not true. If it were, I wouldn't be atheist.

    You can't just label a belief "properly basic" and make it so by fiat. Properly basic beliefs are rare, and belief in god is not one of them - despite Plantinga's assertions.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  12. #30
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Here's the curious thing: you're simply describing the world as it exists and not necessarily how it would exist without God.
    Yes - I am describing the world as it exists - and I believe that it exists without a god. So this explanation helps flesh out why the notion of a "punisher god" is so pervasive in the variety of extant religions..
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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